LL-L 'Lexicon' 2006.10.31 (05) [E/German]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 31 October 2006 * Volume 05
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From: 'Karl-Heinz Lorenz' [Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net]
Subject: LL-L 'Lexicon' 2006.10.30 (03) [German, LS, E]

Hallo Heiko und Reinhard!

Was ich eben gemeint habe ist, dass der Begriff "Fleet" überhaupt nicht
aufscheint in der Plattdeutschen Wikipedia und dass "Fluss" als Sammelbegriff aus
dem Hochdeutschen verwendet wird. Wenn ich Reinhard richtig interpretiere, könnte
man statt "Fluss" auch "Stroom" nehmen (und natürlich nicht "Fleet").

Wenn ich der deutschen Wikipedia Glauben schenken darf, ist übrigens "Fleet" und
"Kanal" nicht dasselbe, sondern ist jenes (ersteres) ein künstliches
Fließgewässer und dieses (letzteres) ein stehendes Gewässer. Ist "Fleet" und
"Gracht" eigentlich dasselbe?. "Gracht" soll hochdeutsch "Graben" bedeuten und in
diesem Zusammenhang fällt auch der Begriff "Gräfte", der die hochdeutsche
Entlehnung aus niederdt. "Graft" und niederdt./niederländ. "Gracht" sein soll.

Concerning all these Wiki-projects in different languages I think there is a
certain "Janusköpfigkeit": on the one hand every little language and dialect can
get its own encyclopedia, on the other hand Wiki makes quite clear the
disadvantages the smaller versions have compared with their bigger brothers. The
smaller can’t hardly compete with the bigger neither concerning quality nor
quantity. They great star is the English Wiki with 1.451 000+ articles followed
by the German with 485 000+ at the moment. The Plattdüütsch counts 3.155. I
think, one year ago, the gap was noticeably smaller, as these figures drift
further apart in the process.

But I appreciate Heikos efforts to give LS also a scientific terminology, it's
certainly a hard job and helps to enrich the language. On the other hand I think
a LS Wiki without an article about "Fleet" is like a D Wiki without "Gracht".

Regards,
Karl-Heinz

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: lexicon

Hi, Karl-Heinz!

In my vocabulary, a _Fleet_ (German [fle:t] < Low Saxon [flE.It]) is an
artificial city canal, and, yes, I consider it pretty much the same as a Dutch
_gracht_.  In some western dialects, the cognate is _Graft_.  (It's the old f ~ x
thing, as in "laugh" vs _lach_.)  The latter is related to _graven_, _graben_
etc., i.e., 'to dig', 'to excavate', and also English "grave."  Originally there
may be a technical difference between _Fleet_ and _gracht_.  I'm not sure if a
_Fleet_ was *always* *completely* man-made.

In my vocabulary, Low Saxon _Kanaal_, like German _Kanal_, is a less specific
term.  It can be artificial or man-made.  So a _Fleet_ is a more specific type of
canal.

I would be hesitant to call the canals of Venice and Stockholm _Fleet_, would
probably err on the _Kanaal_ side, because they aren't (all) totally man-made. 
On the other hand, I would feel a little safer using _Fleet_ in reference to
China's Grand Canal (京杭大運河) and it's urban branches in Hangzhou (杭州) and
Suzhou (蘇州).

There are three pictures of _Fleten_ in Hamburg at Wiki German, also definitions
of the word with a reference to _gracht_:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleet

<translate>
The best-known _fleets_ are located in Hamburg (_Alsterfleten_). Backs of
buildings face the _fleets_, while their fronts face the streets. Like the Dutch
_grachten_, the _fleets_ served transportation of commercial goods. Loads used to
be transferred from ocean vessels onto barges (_Schuten_) and were transported to
their destinations for further processing.
     In contrast to a _Kanal_, the water level in a _fleet_ is not regulated by
means of sluices or locks; it varies with the tides. A _fleet_ is an artificially
created flowing body of water, while a _kanal_ is an artificially created
standing body of water.
     The tides bring with them mud deposits whose removal used to be the
responsibility of _Fleetenkiekers_ ("fleet lookers").
</translate>

So their definition of _Kanal_ differs from mine.  I disagree, considering that
the almost any narrow water passage can be a _Kanal_, such as the British Channel
(_Ärmelkanal_ "sleeve canal/channel").

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Boo! Happy Halloween!

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