SPAM:: LL-L 'Language politics' 2006.09.24 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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L O W L A N D S - L * 24 September 2006 * Volume 02
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From: 'Global Moose Translations' [globalmoose at t-online.de]
Subject: LL-L 'Language politics' 2006.09.23 (01) [E]

Reinhard wrote:
>I am not completely sure why this
>is, though my suspicion is that there is an underlying attitude of
>territorialism, a perceived need to preserve the convenience of not having
to
>deal with issues internationally, for instance coming up with a
language-wide
>orthography in international collaboration and thus most likely having to
>sacrifice the "High German look" of spelling the language in Germany. (The
usual
>explanation I am given for retaining the German-based system boils down to
>declaring the average speaker too unintelligent for coping with "foreign"
>spelling, even though most of these speakers did fine with English
spelling,
>perhaps also French, etc.)

There you go again! No, the reason to retain what you call "the German-based
system" is because that is how the language is spelled! It is beautiful and
comfortable and befitting. And it looks completely Low German the way it is
now, although some (luckily not many) people keep trying to give it a more
exotic look so they can claim it for their own. Anyway, Lower Saxon IS very
similar to German, after all, no matter how much you try to tell the world
it isn't (in German, this is called "herbeireden").

What would you say, dear Reinhard, if I proposed to change the pronunciation
instead, for the sake of "international collaboration"? We can't have all
those people in Mecklenburg and Lower Saxony and Holstein and the
Netherlands all say things in different ways, can we? There are linguists
out there who want it to be a strong, unified language, after all! They need
to change their evil ways! I am going to come up with my own phonetic system
and propagate it, and compel everyone to talk like that henceforth in order
to "save the language"!

They would laugh in my face, and rightfully so - same thing with the
spelling, which is just as much part of the language.

Gabriele Kahn

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From: 'jonny' [jonny.meibohm at arcor.de]
Subject: LL-L 'Language politics' 2006.09.23 (01) [E]

Beste Luc and Ron,

both of you posted very interesting views and thoughts about the relations
between the Belgian, Dutch and German sub-regions of our Lowlandic languages.

> If people in Germany would officially acknowledge that Saxon is being
> spoken across the border on Dutch territory, they would also have to
> agree that "Fränkische Sprachen" are also spoken outside Germany
> (Belgium, Netherlands, France).
>
> And...that's a bit of a problem.
At least they (all of them!) still might have a problem with Charlemagne as a
common ruler of the greater part of Europe ;-)! (BTW: I *have* a problem to call
him 'The Great', as far as not only his height is concerned- but that's another
thing...)

> Or should the message rather be: Look, but don't touch? :-D
I'd prefer: "First touch, and then look what will happen!"
People like to build up barriers and to preserve distance from the view of their
own distance. Very often the straight way is the easier one, I think.

When I answered our Piet for being grateful to receive his 'An de Liende' it was
the beginning of a series of very entertaining and 'fertile' mails. Our
communication still is going on, becoming peronally and open more and more. For
the two of us (Piet, I hope you to agree!) it's a completely kind of normality to
get over any linguistical and political border (we've already had the chance to
find out how to surmount beaurocratic obstacles); we don't think it to be
something very special.

Well- you could argue this is a result of LL-L and our common interests, and
you're right.
But let me talk about one of my neighbours, a very low educated LS-native German.
One of his best friends is a Dutch family, living in the Netherlands. Since the
beginning of their friendship some twenty years ago they easily communicate in a
mixture of LS, Dutch and German.
Let me talk about a brand-new example how open people (in the Netherlands, Ron,-
I have to agree!) are: some days ago I happened to find a site concerning the
Grunneger LS. It's owned by Aaldrik Sillius (our Piet already was mentioned
there- 'hey hett siin Fingers schiints allerwaerts mang' ;-)), and I sent him a
short remark about his work at http://www.sillius.nl/groningana . His very
friendly reaction came promptly, and he wrote me about his delight and surprise
to get mail from Germany. Let's see...!

I could tell you some more examples like these, and all of them will show that a
lot of this stuff of linguistic separatism just is an official artefactum which
tends to come out if official representatives and organisations deal with the
matter (yes, Ron, I think it's not the individuals slowing down the train!). The
'Freudenthal-Stiftung' and the initiatives of the city of Leer seem to be
exceptions- perhaps the 'New Wave of Saxon Teamwork' on the German side...?
Different from the death-born, because meanwhile separated WIKI-projects in LS or
the LS-inititives on German radio- and tv-stations who merely mention the archaic
linguistic relationship in one or two remarks about the Hanse-times.

> Many
> express it cautiously as "... are very closely related to the Low German
> dialects
> of Northern Germany," perhaps because they are aware of the predominant
> German
> position.
>
> When I challenge this predominant German position, the explanation (often
> feeling
> to me like taking me aside and whispering to me as a compatriot) tends to
> range
> between "Hey! You know how weird and touchy the Dutch are!" and more
> officiously
> "Post-War German-Netherlands relations have been rather delicate and
> fraught with
> highly sensitive issues."
Stop whispering, Reinhard! I feel that a new generation on both sides of the
border is already busy to normalize it- and I welcome all the increasing current
political attempts in this direction. BTW: I really don't estimate our
'westerburen' to be sooo touchy; they're perhaps the most humorous nations of
whole Europe, with great abilities for self-mockery (in special Luc and Piet we
all know as lustrous exampels for this fact ;-)!

There are arising new gametes everywhere, both as the reinvention of LS is
concerned and young people in different countries are able to open a new gate for
European history.
In special the ancient mutualities between the Netherlands/Fleming-Land and
Northern-Germany can't be discussed away, only because of 5 years of bloody war-
and nazi-times. We should'nt forget that, for my opinion, all the people along
the German coast of the North-Sea have some drops of 'hOllansch'/Vlaams blood in
their veins- maybe from the ancient Frisian explorations, from some medieval and
new-aged waves of Dutch settlers between Ems and Memel or at least from all the
Dutch people coming to live and build their houses in Germany in present days. In
our village (about 780 inhabitants) we have a great contingent of Dutch farmers
and fellow-citizens up to the third generation (the first of them already came in
the late fifties of the 20. century; merely ten years after the war!!); this was
from the beginning and still is normality. You nearly would'nt be able to differ
them by their family-names from the native population, because the 'tum Sudens',
'van Thadens' etc. are living here since 300 years or longer.

(If an Austrian family would try to farm in our region it would be a real
sensation ;-), though they [officially] speak the same official language!)

'Europe without borders'- who on earth should be able to verify this aim if not
these two countries? And the linguistic and mental border between Bavaria and
Schleswig-Holstein surely is much greater than between Drenthe/NL and
Eastern-Frisia/D.

Lets go ahead without being shy!
In progress we must trust...!

Moj' Sünndag,

Greutens and regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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