LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.09.30 (03) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 30 September 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Luc Hellinckx [luc.hellinckx at gmail.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Phonology

Hi Frank!

You wrote:
> 1.
> - OED: In English, the k is now silent, alike in educated speech and in
> most of the dialects; but it was pronounced apparently till about middle of
> the 17th c. In the later 17th and early 18th c., writers on pronunciation
> give the value of the combination as = hn, tn, dn or simple n.
>
Just for your information: Western Brabantish usually has _tn_ too for
initial _kn_, e.g.

"tnien" for "knie" (D)
"tnootn" for "knoken" (D)
"tnèkken" for "knakken" (D)
"tnajnseln" for "knarselen" meaning "to munch while gritting your teeth"
(frequentative of "knarsen" (D))
"tnoesel" for "knoesel" (D), "ankle" (E)

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn [[log in to unmask]]
Subject: Phonology

Recently we discussed the "American flap" and its Low Saxon counterpart (again),
as well as the Low Saxon tendency toward developing it to an /r/.  I wrote:

> The articulation of the American flap (written _tt_, _dd_) is close to that of
> single-flap aprical /r/, including the Spanish (single) /r/ and als what in
> Japanese is romanized as _r_ (though these two are not phonetically identical).
> In other words, it doesn't surprise me that a child renders it as an apical /r/.

> Incidentally -- and some of you may remember me mentioning this previously -- the
> same rule applies in several Northern Low Saxon dialects; e.g., _vadder_ ["fad3`]
> ~ ["far3`] (sometimes written _Varrer_) 'father'.

> By the way, a related d > r (and in some dialects t > r)* rule applies in
> many Lowlands Saxon (Low German) dialects as well, though they do not apply
> across word boundaries.  In some dialects this applies sporadically, in
> others regularly.  In actual fact, I believe it is a relative of the
> American "flap" or "tap" (as in "better" and "butter").
> 
> [* In most dialects /t/ and /d/ surface identically between vowels, just not
> word-initially.]
> 
> Typically, the tapping rule requires a short vowels on each side (in some
> dialects any sort of vowel); e.g., _bodder_ ~ _botter_ ~ _budder_ ~ _butter_
> ['bOr6] ~ ['bUr6] 'butter', _vadder_ ['far6] 'father', in some dialects
> _beter_ ['be:r6] ~ ['bE:r6] 'better', etc.
> 
> Interesting developments:
> 
> _wedder_ ['vEd6] 'again' has become _werrer_ ['vEr6] in some dialects.  In a
> few dialects, the Saxon shift /er/ > /ar/ (e.g., _berg_ > _barg_ 'mountain')
> then applied: _warrer_ ['var9].
> 
> In some dialects, the word _bed_ [bEt] is pluralized as _bedden_ ['bEd=n].
> Interestingly, "flapping" / "tapping" has come to apply to the plural form
> and then been treated as an /r/: _berren_ [bE.3n], and this has affected the
> singular form in some: _ber_ [bE.3].  This is interesting in that _berren_
> [bE.3n] is phonetically not intervocalic, since the dialects are
> "non-rhotic" (_berren_ being pronounced much like "bairn" is in "non-rhotic"
> English).  I wonder if this is is a historical hangover (thus is
> phonemicized as /ber at n/) or is due to some productive rule sequence.
> 
> As a final note, let me say that the sound involved here is pretty much the
> same as the American flap, also much like what in Japanese is Romanized as
> <r>: (SAMPA [4]), a voiced alveolar tap.  It is perceived as [r] and in some
> varieties may have become /r/.  It is very close to a [d], seems to be the
> "tapped" variant of [d].

Meanwhile it occurred to me that in certain English and/or Scots dialects
something similar seems to have happened.  However, I can come up with no more
than one example at this time, and I wonder if there are more.

porridge < (poddish <) pottage < potage < French _potage_

1225: Hwoso is euer feble eteð potage bliðeliche.

1387: Thou haste so mikel eaten of the potages of foryetfulnesse. 

1430: A potage on fysshday.

1528: Yf the podech [1573 porage] be burned to or the meate over rosted, we saye,
the bysshope hath put his fote in the potte. 

1532: Ye have alredy eaten your porage.

1539: A whit sylver goblet that I use to ett pottadge. 

1542: Potage is not so moche vsed in al Crystendom as it is vsed in Englande.

1550: Hauyng a fewe porage made of the brothe of the same byefe, wyth salte and
otemell. 

1590: How saist thou, Hodge, What, art thou hungrie? wilt thou eat my podge?

1601: He will eate a legge of mutton, while I am in my porridge.

1678: That is a chip in porridge; it is just nothing.

1956: He was forced to live for several months on 'haver-meal poddish' (oat-meal
porridge) in a disused barn.

1976 (Lakeland): We want t' old kist filled wi' meal or ye'll git nee poddish for
yer breckfast. 

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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