LL-L 'Language varieties' 2007.02.10 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L - 10 February 2007 - Volume 02

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From: Karl-Heinz Lorenz <Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L 'Literature' 2007.02.09 (06) [E]

>> Arthur wrote:
>  >A brother is a friend
> >    Who defends you to the end;
> >A step-brother is he
> >     Who improves your poetry.
>
> So what would you call someone who thinks he's improving your poetry, but
> he
> actually just makes it worse, even missing the meter?

I think Ron's "Vogel fliegt weg/wesch" is better than my "fliegt davon", a
Turk wouldn't use "davon", I think. ... For me Ron's verses also look a bit
"Yiddish", for example "aufm" resembles to "oif'm". Maybe he did that
"unbewusst", but it would be interesting to investigate common features of
Yiddish and Turkish-German.

> Karl-Heinz, that was perfect, every word of it... *sigh*
> If ever I let a man corrupt my grammar, it will be you!
>
> Gabriele Kahn
>
So let's have a meeting, sort of: Salman Rushdie meets the Ayatollah for a
Koran reading session.

I think the Northern German approach to separate Standard-(High-)German from
Low-German/Saxon has a disadvantage as it's quite difficult to explain such
things as: "de Vagel sin Nes(t)" is good LS/Low German, whereas "dem Vogel
sein Nest" is regarded as "inferior" non-standar High-German. Ok it's true
also in German spoken South of "Benrather Linie" these dative constructions
are considerd as, I would say "non-official", but they are always mixed up
with the "correct" "Schriftdeutsch", and that provides a freedom of speech,
you Northern German don't know.

On the other side for immigrants it's certainly an advantage to meet natives
who communicate the language just as it's written. You know, I'm quite sure,
that Turks in Northern Germany speak a remarkable better German than their
copatriotes in the South. So I imagine a Turk in Frankfurt saying: "Isch'ab
Freundin in Hamburg, dem spri(s)cht wie Kino. Mein Chef ganz anders, seim
Sprak is wie Wein (Woi) von Apfel (Ebbel) in Bembel!"

This Turkish-German has probably it's root in central German dialects like
those of Cologne, Frankfurt and Berlin and maybe also a bit in upper German
Munich and Stuttgart. As John (Duckworth) wrote, gender of nouns are
different from "Schriftdeutsch" in Central and Upper German, for example
"das" instead of "der" Monat, "der" instead of "das" Benzin, "der" instead
of "das" Auto. The last is pretty important for an immigrant and typical for
Kölsch (Cologne). I once heard this Kölsch sentence: "DER Auto wa' wech!" in
the sense of "They stole my car." So a Turk would say: "Kino und Schule
sagt: DAS Auto, Chef sagt: DER Auto. Wie soll ich das genießen machen? So
ich sag DIE Auto. Kollega in Frankfurt sagt: DEM Auto. DEM ist gut, weil
schaut aus wie DEM (Deutsch Mark) ..."

Karl-Heinz
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