LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2007.01.08 (02) [E/German]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L - 08 January 2007 - Volume 02

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From: Ed Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L 'Honors' 2007.01.07 (07) [E]

At 07:08 PM 01/07/07 -0800, Ron wrote:

>Well, well, Ed, if this didn't entice you out of the woodwork for
>once!  And it caused a spontaneous channeling of the Great Kahuna because
>of your misinterpretation of your Fragrant Name and by your baseless
>allegation that the Hawaiian language has no word for "squirrel."

Well, I was channeling last year, too.  Channeling my efforts into learning
classical Hebrew.  However, I'm always lurking.  Also, there have been so
many clever people join, that they usually get everything pretty well said
that needs to be said.  Those Hawaiian squirrels must be humongous since
they have to deal with coconuts instead of a-corns.  No wonder they're
always dropping their "nuts" from the trees.

>Hihio-mai-kula refers to sudden, unexpected icy gusts of wind from the
>Northern Prairies.

Must be a loan word, since there are no prairies north of Hawaii.

>In pertubation over your baseless allegation, the Kahuna gave you a
>nickname.  Go and check it out.  I suspect he's referring to an ancient
>etymological attempt on your part.  (See below.)
>At 16:05 20/08/97 -0700, I wrote:
>
> >> Dutch     Afrikaans   German         N. Low Saxon               English
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> eik       eike        Eiche          eik (Eek)                  oak
> >> eikel     ekker       Eichel         ekker/ekkel (Ecker/Eckel)  acorn
> >> eekhoorn  eekhorinkie Eichho"rnchen  katteiker (Katteker)
squirrel
> >>                                      eikkat (Eekkatt)
> >>                                      eikhorn(tje) (Eekhoorn(tje))
>
>I am sorry if I am mistaken, but I believe that acorn is from a - corn,
>the corn or "seed" of the a or more commonly, the oak, tree.   How the
>germanic rodent Eichhorn is derived from this I can only theorize that
>since these little fellows are always dropping out of the them, it was a
>colloquialism to call them "oak seeds", much as we might call someone a
>"son of a gun" (and I'm sure we can all think of more).

It occurred to me subsequently that the word may be a contraction of
a-corn-feeder (Eichhornfresser).  This is not as far fetched as you might
think, when you consider the meaning of "mistle-toe" in modern English,
"little shit branch," so-called because of the birds which came to eat the
seeds of this parasite.

Ed Alexander, Ph.D. (Folk Etymology)

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From: Karl-Heinz Lorenz <Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2007.01.07 (01) [E, German]

> Hello,
>
> And well, this person wouldn't be surprised if
> "moinmoin" has been influenced by the Scandinavian:
> 'morn morn'; this is the written form, but the
> visitors from Northern Germany would surely recognise
> 'moin', but then twice.
>
> [And this person would like it a lot if this same
> people would imitate the Scand. 'takktakktakktakk'.]
>
> vr.gr.
> Theo Homan
>
So gesehen ist norddeutsch "Tach" wohl eine Mischung aus nl. "Dag" und
schwedisch "Tack", und heute haben wir einen schönen Tag, weil "Montag"
nichts anderes ist als "Moin Tag" oder es heißt "Schönen Dank" bzw. "Moin
Tack",... One day I'll come to the conclusion: "language is nothing else
than unintelligible onomatopoea".
>
> Well, they adopted this greeting a few years ago, starting each show with
> "Moin, moin, moin", or "Moin, moin, Mausefans". That's the main reason why
> it spread as suddenly and thoroughly as it did.
>
> Gabriele Kahn

So I suppose that they explained "moin, moin, moin" in one of the broadcasts
after they started to use this greeting. So in dem Sinne: moin, moin, moin =
3 x schön = 3 x schön hält besser usw.
LG
Karl-Heinz

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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2007.01.07 (01) [E]

Hi all,

Re. Moin:

It might interest you that the Xhosa speaker will greet you with a 'Molo
molo!", which probably derives from Afrikaans "Môre, môre!"

Regards,

Elsie Zinsser
From: R. F. Hahn
Subject: Etymology
I wrote wrote re the greeting *Moin* and ought to have reiterated that this
greeting can be used anytime of the day, not only in the morning.  This just
to add to the doubts that it was derived from *Morgen*.
Even if it is a relatively new greeting as far as its widespread use is
concerned, it does not preclude it having been used in earlier times in
certain dialects.

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From: Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2007.01.07 (05) [E]

Hi all,

Andrys, if someone says, "Mooi bly", you'd simply respond with "Dankie! Jy
ook!" unless the person will be driving away and then you'd say "Mooi ry!"

Interesting thing is that in Zulu, the greeting is "Hamba kahle" (go softly)
and the one leaving says: "Sala kahle" (stay softly).

I bet Afrikaans speakers adapted this style from Zulu or Xhosa.

Groetnis,

Elsie Zinsser

From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at calt.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology' 2007.01.05 (03) [E]
 Dear all

Amongst my emails this moin, um, morning, there were those discussing
moi and moin, and another unrelated one from a colleague in South Africa
that ended with Moi bly! Apart from the spooky coincidence, what if any
is the connection, and Elsie, what should I use in reply?

Cheers
Andrys

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From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L 'Honors' 2007.01.07 (07) [E]

Ed,

see acorn at

http://www.etymonline.com/

acorn
    O.E. æcern "nut," common Gmc. (cf. O.N. akarn, Du. aker, Low Ger. ecker
"acorn," Goth. akran "fruit"), originally the mast of any forest tree, and
ultimately related to related (via notion of "fruit of the open or
unenclosed land") to O.E. æcer "open land," Goth. akrs "field," O.Fr. aigrun
"fruits and vegetables" (from a Gmc. source). The sense gradually restricted
in Low Ger., Scand. and Eng. to the most important of the forest produce for
feeding swine, the mast of the oak tree. Spelling changed by folk etymology
from oak (O.E. ac) + corn.

David Barrow

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From: Kevin and Cheryl Caldwell <kevin.caldwell1963 at verizon.net>
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2007.01.07 (06) [E]

> From: Paul Tatum < ptatum at blueyonder.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2007.01.07 (05) [E]
>
> Hello everyone,
>        I heard the expression 'to be on the nickel' in a song (Tom Waits)
and
> have no idea what it means. Can anybody enlighten me please as to
> origin and meaning?
>
> TIA Paul Tatum.

A quick internet search turned up this explanation of the song:

"Tom Waits said this was a lullaby about the homeless on "the Nickel", or
Fifth St, Los Angeles."

Kevin Caldwell

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From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at calt.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2007.01.07 (06) [E]

To: Paul Tatum
From: Andrys Onsman
Re: Idiomatica

> Hello everyone,
>        I heard the expression 'to be on the nickel' in a song (Tom
> Waits) and
>  have no idea what it means. Can anybody enlighten me please as to
> origin and meaning?

Dear Paul
On YouTube Tom Waits explains and sings it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sILtO6LAEq8.

One of my favourite expressions "Don't take any wooden nickels"
apparently comes from the Depression days when people would cover
similar sized pieces of wood with foil to try to fool the recipient into
accepting it as a 10 cent piece.

Cheers
Andrys
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