LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.25 (01) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  25 June 2007 - Volume 01

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From: Maria Elsie Zinsser <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.24 (03) [E]

Hi all,

Ron, in Afrikaans, the color green also denotes jealousy; 'Hy was groen van
jaloesie toe ek..." but I think it comes from the English language (or Low
Saxon?) rather than being a cultural remnant from Dutch, German or French.

Yellow has no negative connotation in Afrikaans, unless Mark, Petrus or
Marcel can tell us otherwise.

My gut tells me that the people who started using these secretive color
codes to communicate about characteristics such as snobbery and deluded
superiority, did so because gossiping about the newly rich and
newly learned was either frowned upon or even punished.

Elsie Zinsser

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From: "list at marcusbuck.org" <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.23 (05) [E]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Good one, Mark!
>
> In Low Saxon it's kum (Kumm < Kumme, fem.) for 'basin', 'bowl', etc.

"Kumm < Kumme, fem."? Ik kinn Kump, mask. för Schötel oder en gröttern
Beker. Un dat passt mit dat 'p' beter to coombe, oder? Warrt foken ok
afslepen to Kumm.

Marcus Buck

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.24 (03) [E]

Hi, Elsie, Reuben and *Reinhard*,

this thread started with LS 'Geelsnacker' and meanwhile reached Eastern LS
'Jältään.

*Elsie:*

> It has puzzled me too why, in Mennonite Plautdietsch, the devil would be
called "jäl Tän".

*Reuben:*

> "Jältähn f. Gelbzahn: Schreckgestalt; bogeyman, yellow tooth, ghoul in
> folklore." May this be of some help toward definition and etymology.

I'm very familiar with this word, which often was used by my grandparents
from East Prussia. And it always denoted a bogeyman, as Reuben shows. I've
never heard about any connection to the devil.

*Ron:*

LS *'Geelsnacker'* isn't a man who talks 'Houghdüütsch' (Standard German)
in its first meaning at all. It's an everyday word here: *'hey snackt
geel'*and that definitely means that someone is talking in a
*boastful, immoderate* way- no matter if in LS or Standard German. We
wouldn't denote a man talking Standard German 'Geelsnacker', we prefer '*hey
is 'n Houghdüütschen'*. I guess 'Geelsnacker' in that special meaning to be
one of those words having become famous by non-natives.

*(BTW: Sorry, Reinhardt, for continuously misspelling your name- I didn't
realise it...)*
**
Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.24 (03) [E]

To *'Jähltän'* once more:


 I just remember a special story my uncle from East Prussia told about him:

Near their farm there was an old water hole ('Mergelkuhle'), surrounded by
meadows. In the evening, after the work had been done, the horses had to be
brought to this meadow. In autumn times it often was already nearly dark. To
bring the horses to the meadows always was great pleasure for a boy like my
uncle (and like me, too, one generation later...)- he was allowed to sit and
ride on one of them.
The accompanying young farmhands had another kind of pleasure: they used to
tell the little boy horrifying tales about that dreadful 'Jältään' who lived
in that water hole, and at last they sometimes even ran away, shouting: "De
Jältään  kaomt, de Jältään kaomt!" and left him crying alone.

That's the story, but now some facts: in Standard German 'Gelbzahn' is an
alternative expression, kind of nickname for '*beave*r', and the village
where the above story played was named '*Bieberswalde*' ('wood of the
beavers').

*'Jältähn'* a beaver? Because it's a nocturnal animal; with the noise it
causes it is frightening humans passing by any pond etc. in night time. I
guess that's the background for this 'bogeyman'-stuff...

I've had never before this sight of these connections!

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm
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