LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.04 (07) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 03 March 2007 - Volume 07

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From: Peter Snepvangers <snepvangers at optushome.com.au>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.04 (01) [E]

From: Theo Homan < theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.03 (03) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Idiomatica

> While most European languages now distinguish "bell"
> and "clock," Low Saxon
> and Icelandic (and Faeroese?) belong to the modern
> ones that use the same
> word in all contexts:

In Icelandic in all contexts?
Who told you so?

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

From: "heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk"  <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.03 (03) [E]

Ron wrote

Old English: belle ~ clucge
Old Frisian: klokke
Old Saxon: ?
Old L. Frank.: ?
Old German: glokka ~ scella ~ skilla
Old Norse: bjalla ~ klokka
Gothic: skilla

How can there have been a word for something that didn't exist ?
Clocks were not invented until .... 13th / 14th century.
So it's hard to see how these early languages would have had a word for one.
My understanding was that the word for a celtic bell i.e. one made by folded
iron to give the traditional shape of a Swiss cow bell ( rather than a round
bell by casting) was loaned from the Irish word for cloak because the
outline shape of the bell looked like a man in a long cloak.
The Romans also pinched the word and the item (cloak)
When the Irish missionaries went to Germany they took their Celtic Christian
language with them including 'clocca' = bell; this became German 'Glocke'.
When clocks were invented in Germany they were called Glockenuhr  because a
bell struck the hour.
The item was exported to the English, who promptly shortened this long word
and dubbed the new invention a 'clock'.
Welsh and Irish then brorrowed both item and word 'cloc'
So what started as an Irish cloak came back in the guise of a clock Welsh
'cloc' ( Sorry not sure what the Irish is)
One of my favourite language stories !
Heather

Hello Ron, Theo, Heather and Lowlanders,
  I may be wrong but didn't the Greeks use water clocks around 1,000BC with
geared clock faces not too different to our western pre digital clock faces.
Astronomically they already divided the circle into 360 degrees, knew all
about 60 minutes in an hour (from Horus, the Egyptian sun - day - God).
These water clocks could operate day and night (unlike the old sundials).
The Romans borrowed so many things from the Greeks so it would not surprise
me if they had names for clocks and rang a bell in the town square or
somewhere to designate the time. The Roman name for waterclock may have been
the same name for bell.
Best regards
Peter Snepvangers
snepvangers at optushome.com.au
Sydney Australia

•

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