LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.03.17 (02) [E]

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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L O W L A N D S - L - 17 March 2007 - Volume 02

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From: Luc Hellinckx < luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance"

Beste Ron,

You wrote:

Thank you for the interesting question, Jacqueline. It reminds me to the
situation on the German side of the border.

People at the upper end of the socio-economic "totem pole" sometimes use Low
Saxon ("Platt"), especially with "ordinary" people (e.g. patients and
clients), perhaps because they find it cool and it creates the impression
that they have a feel for and the right touch with the "people of the land."
Anyway, they have nothing to lose; it can only improve their reputation.

But people of lower socio-economic classes want to believe that they are
"upwardly mobile," and especially those of the middle class furthermore feel
obliged to prove that they do not belong to the lowest classes, namely to
the classes that speak "dialect."

My impression and theory are based on the assumption that most people still
believe that the use of "dialect" is associated with inferior education (and
the word "regional language" is merely a euphemism symptomatic of the
refusal to recognize a language as a language among people of the supposedly
same ethnic group) and that only those people choose to occasionally use
"dialect" whose learnedness is not in doubt, and the symbolic proof of this
is their superior proficiency in the national standard language.

***

Belatedly in my defense of responses to this, please let me add that I did
not claim that this actually applied to the situation in the Netherlands.
So it was not really to be answered with "right" or "wrong" but with "it
applies" or "it doesn't apply" to the situation in the Netherlands.

Do you believe the psychological relationship (regarding language) between
lower, middle and upper socio-economic classes in any other part of the
world can be very different from the German situation? Especially your
remark about "upwardly mobile" people, sounds pretty universal to me (in as
far as middle class exists in the concerned economic system).
A (slight) gender based schism shouldn't be ruled out however in my opinion.
I once read in a professional journal that linguistic innovation (in western
societies) is more readily adopted and transferred by women than by men, so
it wouldn't surprise me that middle class men (try to) retain their original
speech longer than women do.

Kind regards,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com >
Subject: Language maintenance

Hi, Luc, and thanks!

It's always great to hear from you, buddy, especially because you and I tend
to agree ... ;-)  Might this be because both of us have been to the ends of
the earth on foot, so to speak, and have discovered first-hand that most
differences are but skin-deep?

Seriously, though ... Yes, I do agree with what you said.  Or I should say
that this is my basic tenet.  I just didn't want to come across as dogmatic,
unbending or whatever, and this is why I left the door open for people to
come forward and convince me otherwise, also in the case of the Eastern
Netherlands (and the situation does seem somewhat different according to
what I hear).

I found our Jacqueline's question very interesting, in part because it deals
with social class issues of language use.  In my experience these aspects
tend to be neglected or underrated these days, perhaps because we ike to
believe that class differences are no longer as important or pronounced as
they used to be, or we find the topic somehow unpleasant and sensitive in
general (much like avoiding talking about the rising cost of living so
people won't think we're hard up and thus low-class).

My observations about the upper class's occasional use of "dialect" stand.
As I said, it can hardly be detrimental to those that indulge in it.  Lower
class people will think, "The guy's down to earth despite his education and
money. He's true to his humble beginnings, almost like one of us." Only some
might think it's a case of patronizing if it's not pulled off convincingly.
The upper-crust guy's or gal's peers will think, "He's a really smart cookie
with the right touch for the riffraff, what with coming across as all
ethnic, rustic and proletarian despite his education and money."  This is
provided he doesn't behave like a "boorish" type in "polite" company,
provided there's no doubt about his social standing, and in large part
symptomatic of that is his proficiency of the Kultursprache when it counts.
This type doesn't have to be wealthy as long as he or she is considered a
member of the elite.

In my youth in my neighborhood the foremost public users of Low Saxon where
people like educators, academics, clerics, writers, media personalities and
performers. I believe it is they that we owe most thanks, because in
hindsight I believe that most of them were activists. Most other speakers
went underground and didn't pass on the language to their offspring.  Why?
They were not members of the elite; thus they and their offspring thought of
themselves as upwardly mobile and believed that the use of a low prestige
language would be detrimental to this supposed mobility.

I have to admit, though, that I am still somewhat mystified by the findings
you reported regarding the gender issue.  Yes, it seems to be true that
males tend to be more conservative universally.  This may be because most
societies are male-dominated, and maintaining the status quo is therefore
important to many males.  Most sorts of changes thus tend to be perceived as
threatening by many men, including by men that are not in leading roles but
like to believe they have the potential of moving up, or they fixate on
their leading roles as big fish in small domestic ponds.  I have observed
women in "executive" careers (both business and academia) taking on
male-associated language and behavior in their endeavor to break into the
male club and to be accepted there.  If most linguistic changes emanate from
females I suppose that those are females that do not aspire to that sort of
role.  However, in many cases "assuming male-associated language and
manners" may be nothing more than not following the cutesie-tootsie girlish
and "non-aggressive" ways that are the expected standard in some sections of
society.

I sure would love to learn more about this.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net >
 Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.03.17 (01) [D/E/German]

Beste Ron, Jonny and Karl Heinz. So what if people in different times speak
a different Platt, my nieces and nephews speak a different Dutch than I do.
And I don't think it is surprising that there is some difference between the
language of better educated and lesser educated people. But at least they
are talking to each other. It is probably just my sadness that the Middle
Ages are over!   Jacqueline

•

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