LL-L "Anniversary" 2007.05.17 (01) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  17 May 2007 - Volume 01

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From: Jonny Meibohm <altkehdinger at freenet.de>
Subject: LL-L 'Honours'

Beste Reini,

(English summary below)

disser Doog hebb ick miin föfften 'anniversary' bii Jouw- edders, schull
'ck driest un beter seggen: bii *'uns*'? Tiid, mol tou vertell'n, wat ick
al'ns beleevt un leyhrt hebb- sou 'n Oort van feedback, ouk föör Dii. In 'n
Vöör-Uuut: Dank an dat 'mengleyrte Trio' Gabriele, Wüllem Busch un dennen
Wüppwarper, ohn' dat ick misschien jümmer noch in 'n platten Düstern sitten
dey!

Wat hebb 'ck mitünner all lacht öber de eyn' or anner' Mail, wat hebb 'ck
obers ouk all schimpt! Wat hebb 'ck ne all al'ns leyhrt, man ouk, wat anner
Lüüd ouk 'n Beeten wat van mii leyhr'n kunnen, wenn 's denn man wull'n ;-)!

Wat kann 'ck seggen, wat anner Lüüd ouk all seggt hebbt?

*Toueyrst* fallt mii in: Neddersassisch schriiben - Neddersassisch snakken
sünd heyl verscheyden' Sooken! Blivvst' alleyn in Diin eygen
'Heimat-Dialekt', kummst mit 't Vokabulaar amend ne t'recht, dat sücht meist
goodlich uut... Wiist Du eyn van Diin Nobern, wat Du schreeben hesst, seggt
dey: "Wat is dat denn föör'n Platt? Dit un dat Wourd kenn 'ck gonne, waard
hier ne bruukt!" Snackst Du no obers noch mit wat meyhr Lüüd, kannst Glück
hebben, wat de eyn or anner seggt: "Nee- ick kenn dat Wourd ne, man, ick
gloyv, miin Ouma, dey uut 'n Noberdörp, hett souwat noch bruukt."
'Der Prophet gilt nichts im Vaterlande.' Edders, mit anner Woyr: fangst' dat
plattdüütsche Schriiben an, kiikt de Lüüd Dii van allerwärts scheyv an.

Blivvst denn in man *eyn* *'Schryyv-Wys'*, waarst' foors un faken wiis, wat
du de Woyr mennigmool sülbst ne uut-spreeken kannst, de Du door
opp-schreeben hesst. Nimmst' de 'Düütsche Schriev-Wiese', koomt Dii jümmers
de oule Sass tomoyt un will Dii seggen, wo 't lang-geiht. Man- DEY hett mii
amend nix tou seggen ;-)! Schrivvst meyhr no de 'Hanse-Schryyv-Wys', givvt
dat Uutschimpers van de Duitsers, de dat 'Y' ne liiden möögt. Schrivvst no
de 'Hollanners' jemmer Wiis, ohn' wat Du sülbst Nedderlannsch prooten
kannst, waard door ouk ne recht wat van. Blivvt anners nix, as 'n Mengsel
van de Drey tou bruuken, denn hebbt 's altohoup lieker-deylen wat tou
quarken; door gewoyhnst Dii mit de Tiid an...
Mennigmol is miin Schriiv-System (is ne veel Systematik binnen) obers ouk de
schiere Dwatschigkeyt ;-), eyn Fanaal tegen geelsnacksche nedderdüütsche
Schriivery!

Mit anner Wöör: Oeddelrük un Mest mööt ween, mitünner mutt'st opp'n Sünndag
obers ouk dat Schapptüüch antrekken un mit dennen Kutschwogen foyhr'n. Dat
hebb 'ck anfangs ne mooken wullt.

*Tou 'n Tweyd':* de Lüüd sünd ouk verscheyden; mutt'st düchdig Obacht opp
geeben. 'n Poor Mol hebb 'ck *'n Toch in 'n Düstern mookt'*, bünn teymli'
opp Glatt-Iis uut-rüüscht un mit eyn'n Fout in dennen oul'n Fatt-Putt pett'.
 *'Wat dennen eyn'n siin Uul, is dennen annern siin Nachtingall**'*; wat
dennen eynen Plezeyr mookt, kann 'n annern siin Piin ween. "Joo ne tou veel
Gefoyhl!" seggt Dii de eyn, un de anner seggt "Dat gefallt mii allerbest,
wat Du altiids mit sou veel Foyhlen schrivvst!" *'Wat schallst mooken?
Schittst' rin 'n Bett, schittst' rin 'n Looken!'*

*Tou 'n Drütt':* jeyd'eyn kann hier woll schriiben, as em de Snuut wussen
is- man: nümms schall sick wunnern, wenn hey ouk 'n Anter kriigen deyht,
ouk, wenn he sick door gonne föör haar! Ouk 'n Anter, de hey oppletzt gonne
liiden kann, de em wiist, wat hey opp 'n verkeyrden Patt is. Keyn hier tou
ebeerig is, schull de Fingern door van looten- un ick weyt, wo ick van
snakken douh. Mitünner weyr 'ck ouk all meist beleidigt un müss 'n Stood
Tiid hebben, mii weller tou besinnen un miin Schoul-Arbeiden tou mooken.
Dat is faken fiigeliinsch un krisst ouk ne jümmer 'trecht, dennen
Ünnerscheyd twüschen de Sook un de Perzoun tou marken. Bruukst' avv un an 'n
dick' Fell, wenn Du hier opp längere Tiid mit-mooken wullt.
Man, Reinhard, hesst Du 'n Pelz doorföör- mennigmool mutt Dii doch all bii
't Fröhstück de Gall'n hough-koomen, wenn Du 's monnens mol weller van eyn'n
Snaarbüdel uut Kehdingen eyn doysige Mail schikkt kreegen hesst ;-). Diin
Geduld un Uut-Duer hett Oort!

*Tou 'n Veyrd':* jüst van Dii (man, ouk 'nough van anner klouke Lüüd!) hebb
'ck 'n Baarg leyhrt, un dat nich' alleyn öber linguistischen Krooms. Diin
Küll van Geschichte, Soziologie, Religion etc. is all meist wunnerlich. Un ouk
door dank ick Dii föör, miin Jung (kann 'ck jo seggen; büsst jo 'n poor
Johr'n jünger as ick ;-)), wat Du door faaken ouk in düüdliche Woyr' öber
schriiben dayst, ouk öber dennen Schiit, dennen uns Vör-Öllern mitünner
mookt hebbt! Opp disse Oort waard de Welt rund.

*Tou 'n Föfft':* wii persoynlik hebbt uns mittünner ouk all oarig inne
Klatten haart. "Kloor- hey tüdelt mitünner, de Ami uut Wilhelmsburg ;-)!
Schrivvt krusen Kroom! Weyt gonne recht meyhr, woans dat oppstünns in 't
platte Düütschland uut-sücht." Sou kunn 'n dat woll mitünner begriepen, wat
ick avv un an schriiben douh.
Weyr 't denn nu beter ween, wenn wii jümmer eyn Meyn'n haart harr'n? Wenn de
eyn' dennen annern altiids no 't Muul snakken deyh? Tjungedii, dat kunn
oppletzt doch woll langwiilig waarn, wat meynst? Man- jümmers gliik
tougeeben, wat de Anner dittmool woll Recht hett, dat liggt dennen Lowlanner
ne sou recht, door is hey faaken tou stuur tou. Dat duert mennigmool 'n
lütten Stood, bit hey siin Kopp uut de Klay un de Grobens ruut-lücht un no
anner Lüüd jemmer Snakken hinhoyrt. Wat seggt de Dithmarscher Buer tou siin
tweyden Söhn, de van dennen Hoff trekken mutt? *"Jung, nu go in de
groude Welt un seyh tou, woneem Du diin Glück mooken dayst. Obers- bliiv man
joo in Dithmarschen; alleyn hier is de Marsch, un al de anner Welt is man
jüst Geest!"*

Man- Du büsst ouk 'n Dickkopp, miin beste Landsmann. Un denn noch Diin
schlesisch' Ouma door mang (un bii mii de Wendlanners un Oost-Preußen); dat
hett mittünner Oort mit uns ;-).

*Touletzt:* ick dank Dii un al de annern Lüüd föör Hölp un Rood, de ick all
faken van Jouw kreegen hebb. Un Dii, Reinhard, will 'ck noch eyn Deyl
tou-stüü'rn: mitünner hesst Du all seggt, wat Du ouk mol loyvt waarn moygst,
föör al de Arbeyd, de Du Dii mookst un föör de plietschen Ideen, de Du
mitünner hesst.
Mii dücht- dat Loyv krisst Du jo meist elke Dag, wenn Du 't wiis waarst, wat
de Lüüd Dii noch jümmer goud tou-hoyr'n douht, wat se Truu'n tou Dii hebbt
un Dii geyrn üm Diin' Rood angooht. Wat hesst Du föör 'n 'houge' Sellschopp
opp 'n Dutt kreegen! Dat is Loyv; sou'n öberklouken Kerdel opp 'n anner Oort
tou loyven is meist tou fiigeliinsch un hoyrt sick licht no *'Honnig-üm
'n-Boort-smeer'n'* an.

Ick kunn nu woll noch 'n heyl Bült meyhr schriiben un preystern, mii dücht
obers, wat ick meist al'ns seggt hebb, wat seggt worrn müsst.

Mook wiiter!

Best' Kumpelmenten in 'n Huus!

Jonny Meibohm

............

*English summary*

Dear Reinhard,

these days I have my own 5th anniversary with you- or should I better say:
with *us*? Perhaps it's time tou make some words about the things I
experienced and learned, maybe a kind of feedback for you. In advance:
thanks to the 'mixed trio' Gabriele, Wilhelm Busch *(a German poet)* and the
mole- without them I possibly still would live in a 'flat' dark.
  How often did I burst into loud laughter about the one or other mail I
received here, but how angry was I sometimes, too!

What amount of stuff did I learn, but I also could experience that other
people could learn a bit from me if they just would try it ;-)!

What could I say about the years what other people already said before me?

*At first* I think about the big difference between speaking here or writing
there Low Saxon. If you just will stay in your home-dialect the vocabulary
won't be sufficient; it sometimes may look very poorly. If you show it to
one of the natives around you will hear: "What kind of LS is *that*? This or
that word I don't know, it isn't used here." Talking to some others you can
be lucky to hear: "No- I don't know this word. But my granny from the
neighboured village used something sounding similar."
'A prophet has no honour in his own country!' With other words: if you start
writing in LS you'll find yourself sitting on the fence.

Staying then in just one 'Schryyv-Wys' you soon will find out that you are
unable to pronounce the words the way you wrote them. If you use the
so-called 'German-writing system' *(for LS) *you always will meet Mr. Sass
who wants to tell which way to go. *That one* hasn't to command me anything
;-)! If you prefer the 'Hanseatic-writing-system' you'll get scolded by the
Germans who don't like the letter *'-Y-'*. Do you write in a
Dutch-based-system, whithout being able to speek Dutch you won't succeed
either. The only chance: take a mixture of the three of them and people will
quarrel with you in equalized manner; during the times you'll get familiar
with this burden...
But I have to admit that sometimes my writing-system (which I think not
to have a real system) is the sheer provocativeness ;-), a kind of 'beacon'
against standardised writing of LS.
In other words: the smell of liquid manure and dung has to be *(in daily
LS), *but sometimes on Sundays  you have to take on your best clothes and
drive in a clean coach. That is different compared with my beginning over
here.

 *Second:* people are different, too *(as well as the writing-systems),* and
you always have to be aware of this fact. Not regarding this I sometimes
failed, got on slippery ice and stepped into the fat-pot. *What the owl for
the one is the nightingale for the other, *what seems amusing for the one
could make ache to the next. "Don't write so emotionally!" you are said by
the one, and the other says "I like your emotional way to write!" An
LS-idiom says: *If you shit into your bed, you'll always shit into the
sheet!*

 *Third:* everyone on this list may write the way he/she likes. But no-one
should wonder if he gets answers at points he even doesn't await to get.
Maybe he causes any reaction he doesn't like at all, which shows him that
he's on any wrong path. People being too delicate should perhaps look for
something else but not deal with the folks over here- and I myself know what
I'm telling about. Several times I had been in a snit and needed some
time-outs to come on my feet again and to do my homework.
It's very difficult and sometimes impossible to realise the difference
between the root of the matter and the person you come across with. From
time to time you need a thick skin to continue to take part in this party.
Reinhard, you indeed must have a very thick fur; how often must your blood
have come up during your breakfast, just having got any stupid mail from any
back-seat-driver from Kehdingen *(a landscape in the Lower Elbe region) *;-)
*.*
Your steadyness and patience often is really admirable!

*Fourth:* specially from you (but from other intelligent people as well)
I've learned a lot, and not only about linguistics. Your knowledge about
historical, sociological and religious matters is outstanding. And
there's another point I'd like to thank you for, boy (I've got the
permission to address you this way, because you're some years younger than
me ;-)): often you use clear words regarding historical discomfort, also
about some shit our ancestors made in the past. This way the world will
become round, I think.

 *Fifth:* we two personally have had some harsh discussions. "Isn't it
obvious- he is mad, the American from Wilhelmsburg *(a part of the city of
Hamburg and Ron's place of birth)* ;-). He doesn't know any longer how it's
running with LS in Germany." So people could think about my convincement.
Would it perhaps been better always to have only one view of things? Just
say 'yes, yes' to each other? Oh boy- that would be boring at last, I fear.
But to admit at once that the other one is right in his position isn't part
of a native LS-speaker's character; too pigheadish for that. It will always
last for a while until he will lift his head out of the clay and ditches to
listen to other people's advices.
The farmer from Dithmarschen *(a landscape at the Northside of the
Lower-Elbe-region)* told his second son, when he was forced to leave his
home: *"Boy, go and explore this big world. Make your fortune. But-
you shouldn't leave Dithmarschen; just and alone here we have got the
marshlands, and all the leftover part of the world only is 'Geest' (coastal
sandy heathland in north Germany)."*

But you're a real bullhead too, my best countryman. And then your Silesian
grandma (according to my Polabian and East Prussian ancestors) within your
veins; this combination sometimes meant interesting experiences for both of
us ;-).

 *At last:* thanks to you and all others for all the help and advice I often
got. And, specially to your address, Reinhard: sometimes you said feeling a
lack of positive feedback for all your heroic efforts and the often tricky
ideas you come over with.
I'd like to say that you get this feedback nearly every day, when you
realise people listening to your words, when they trust in you and beg for
your advice. What 'noble' kind of community you could assemble around you! I
think this to be a very special kind of laudation for you; to make direct
compliments to a  man like you is very difficult and always could look as if
it were adulation.

It wouldn't be a problem to go on but I think I should find the ending point
here.

Go on with Lowlands-L!

Very kind regards to you!

Jonny Meibohm

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Anniversary

Hi, Jonny!

Thank you very much for going to the trouble of marking your anniversary
with a summary and assessment of your experience.  Thank you also for your
assessment of me personally.  As I have told you privately, we are not and
should not be in the business of na't muul snakken (flattering); so I take
your words at face value.

Due to time limitations I can only respond in English (for everyone's sake),
and relatively briefly so (also for everyone's sake).

I think I can safely assume everyone else agrees that your contributions to
the List have been invaluable, even when you yourself did not seem to think
they were.  As I often say, mere questions and, yes, questionable
assumptions and conclusions can be as valuable or even more valuable than
seemingly faultless, erudite "lectures," because they stimulate debates --
yes, sometimes, heated debates -- and thus interaction.  I like to think
that interaction is really the most important element here. Without it there
would be no need for a list; we could just post our blurbs on the web. And
interaction is or should be synonymous with learning from each other, which
is what it's all about, as far as I am concerned.

I don't claim to have all the answers or the correct answers, and I assume
that no one else on the List thinks this about me and themselves.  Exchanges
of ideas, findings and conclusions require a give-and-take relationship, and
it is inevitable that occasionally some feathers get ruffled, beaks get bent
out of shape and some flight attempts end up in crash-landings (to stay with
our wren theme).  This does not or should not amount to personal animosity;
it doesn't mean that we have to stop liking or loving each other.  And
there's a place here for anyone with any opinion or attitude as long as he
or she does not act in a disruptive or destructive way.  Once in a while one
Lowlander or another privately shared with me their opinion that one person
or another ought not be among us, because of their political leaning or
because of their alleged attitudes toward one type of person or another. As
long as they act respectfully, I would always defend anyone's right to to be
among us and to share their opinions, even if their leanings and attitudes
were obvious and loathsome to me personally.

As far as personal sensitivities are concerned, we all know that they stem
from psychological insecurities, and these often make even well-meaning,
friendly nudges seem like personal attacks and injuries of one's pride.
Most of us have this problem to one degree or another.  There's little
anyone can do except to suggest getting over it and taking these exchanges
as an opportunity to add a few layers to one's skin and work on one's
pig-headedness -- most importantly to hang on to one's sense of humor.  As
the saying goes:

Dikken kop un dünne huud
blyvt tou huus', gaat nich uut.

[Dicken Kopp un dünne Huut
blievt tohuus, gaht nich ut.]

("With a pig-head and thin skin
don't go out; you'd best stay in.")

(Well, I just made it up, but such a proverb ought to exit. Don't you
agree?)

Yes, Jonny, it's true that at times I've "admonished" you, but I've always
done so as a friend and with a smile ... or with a grin. For one thing, I
don't want you to turn into the grumpy old man down the street that throws
fallen stone fruit at the neighborhood kids whenever he doesn't approve of
the way they play.  You have more to give than that.

What I've always appreciated about you most of all is your eagerness and
ability to learn.  Over the years (and it's really more than five) I've
watched you grow by leaps and bounds.  I dare say that especially in this
regard your tenure here has been beneficial to you and as a consequence has
been beneficial to others, at least in terms of inspiration.

So here's to you and another five years, old chum!

Dwarskop, gnurhaan, olde rakker!
Lykers büst us goude makker.

[Dwarskopp, Gnurrhahn, ole Racker!
Liekers büst us gode Macker.]

Mulishness and grumpiness ...
You're a good pal nonetheless.

Happy anniversary, Jonny!

Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Pat and Marcel, I'm afraid all that talk about meetings has made folks
retreat into their shells ... Uh-oh!
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