LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.10.26 (06) [E/LS]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  26 October 2007 - Volume 06
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <Kreimer at jpberlin.de>
Subject: "Lexicon" [E] [LS]

Leyve Lüe,

24.10.2007 schrayv Heiko Evermann:
> Wat is en Siedlung, op Platt ...
> I have searched my dictionaries without success. I have not even
> been able to
> verify the existance of the root word "siedeln" in modern Low Saxon.

Man in Klöntrupps "Niederdeutsch-Westphälisches
Wörterbuch" (afsluoten tüsken 1820 un 1824) giv't den Indrag:

"Eensiddeligge 1) Einsiedeley 2. einsame Wohnung" un auk:

"Eensidler Einsiedler, ungeselliger Mensch"

So far, there seems to be a LS word for Settlement:

"(nigge) Siddeligge" (or for Northeners maybee "Nee Seddelee"?).

Of course, Ron's Proposal "LS (nee) Wahnsteed' (Wohnste, etc.)" might
sound more familiar. In Westphalian could that be:

"nigge Wuonplassen" or "nye Wuonsti(h)en".

In Westphalian LS it would still be possible building a new word with
the ending "-enge" or "-nge", too,

for example: "(nigge) Siddel(e)nge" or "nye Behüsenge".

Indeed, in the semi-official Wordbook for the Osnabrück Dialect "Nix
os Wöere" van 1994 you can find words as:

Afköttenge, Aunenge, Huopenge, strenge ;-), Erinnernge, Foodenge,
Füerdenge.

Goudgoun!
Joachim Kreimer-de Fries


> Any good suggestions?
>
> Heiko Evermann
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Lexicon
>
> Moin, Heiko!
>
> I have seen siedeln 'to settle' and Siedlung 'settlement' used as
> German loans, but I'm not too happy with borrowing such basic
> words. I feels grating to me.
>
> Old Saxon has sedlio ~ setlio and ênsedlio ~ ênsetlio for
> 'settler', but no word for 'to settle' seems to be extant. (I posit
> it as *sedlian ~ *setlian which would have developed into modern *
> setteln ~ seddeln.) An exact equivalent of German Siedlung can not
> be attested in Old Saxon, or in Old German for that matter (so
> Siedlung must be a more recent invention, and most Northern Low
> Saxon dialects have lost older -ing and tend to use nominal
> infinitive -(e)n instead). The same goes for English; it did not
> choose pure Germanic *settling but partly French settlement, which
> goes back to the mid-17th century.
>
> As for your dilemma, I would simply paraphrase, which is the most
> natural way anyway. (Coming up with word-for-word equivalents tends
> to lead you into trouble.)
>
> Dutch has woonplaats as one word for 'settlement'. LS (nee)
> Wahnsteed' (Wohnste, etc.) or (nee) Dörp seem fine to me,
> especially in the given contexts. Also, I have seen jöödsche Dörpen
> (literally "Jewish villages") used in the context of Palestine. You
> could always add nee (or nie(g)) 'new' or nee (~ nie) upstellt
> (lit. "newly placed/put-up") to make it clearer if there's any
> danger of ambiguity. I think this would work in both contexts:
> Palestine and Greenland.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
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