LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.11 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  11 September 2007 - Volume 04
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.09.11 (01) [E]

From: "heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk"  <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.09.10 (05) [D/E]

On the same kind of theme but closer to home ( here in the UK I mean) does
anyone know of any German language influences on Irish / Irish English left
by the Protestant settlers from the Rheinland Pfalz c 1706/7?

The only thing I have ever come across is a folk tale heard in Northern
Ireland / Ulster about Aspittel, who had to look after the house and was
bullied by her 2 older sisters... and eventually of course wins the hand of
the prince!

In English Cinderella and German Aschenputtel

Names still abound: my family's was Schwitzer or Schweitzer from Newcastle
West & Croome in Limerick.

Heather

The only obvious German borrowings I can think of are clearly WWII ones:
"strafe, Blitz, Panzer", and less military but still wartime "ersatz".
"Ueber" gets used as in "Uber-rich", but that seems very recent.

It was once suggested that the Derbyshire miner's term "toadstone" for
basalt came from German miners' "Totstein", i.e. it was dead stone - the
mineral veins usually thin out to a few millimetres when they pass through
basalt.   However, a better suggestion is normal Derbyshire usage of "the
Old Stone", as in "we've hit the old stone again", or in local dialect
"we've 'it t'ode stone agen".

Paul Finlow-Bates
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From: Denis Dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.11 (02) [E]

Ron,
"Dul" is still used and exactly pronounced as in English, meaning "angry".
"Ie ès dul", meaning He is angry.

On the other hand it is also used in the meaning of being "brave".
"T'ès nen dullen" meaning, He is a brave guy. He is endeavouring and working
hard to reach his goal.
So in westflemish it has as well a negative, as well as a positive
connotation.

bgr

denis dujardin

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From: "M.-L. Lessing" <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.11 (02) [E]

Did not "bravo" make the same carreer as "toll"? I think "bravo" originally
means "mad" or "wild" like "toll", doesn't it?

Marlou

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Lowlanders,

Here's an etymological note with a question at the end.

Low Saxon has the word dol (doll < dolle) which originally meant  'crazy',
'crazed', 'raging' and now also (and in some dialects only) means
'strongly', 'very much', 'very'. Dutch dol still means 'crazy', 'crazed',
'raging'.  They are clearly related to English "dull".  (How's that for
semantic divergence?)

Low Saxon doll ended up in Missingsch and then in casual Northern German
with the meaning 'strongly', 'very much', 'very'.  Its German cognate is
toll (d > t, t > ts), originally meaning 'crazy', 'crazed', 'raging' but
nowadays being used more in the extended sense of 'great' (!).  This is how
doll and toll came to coexist in the same language varieties.

Has doll spread to Southern German varieties in the meantime?

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From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.11 (02) [E]

Hi Ron Re your statement that "dol" means crazy like in "hondsdolheid"
(rabies) in Dutch: That is true, but it also occurs in the in the sense of
G."toll" as in "dolgraag". (Ik wil dolgraag naar het strand vandaag = I
would really like to go to the beach today). Jacqueline
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