LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.14 (02) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  14 September 2007 - Volume 02
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Danette & John Howland <dan_how at msn.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.14 (01) [E]

From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.13 (05) [E]

Hi Lowlanders,

Considering the origins of the English word "bat" I somehow feel tempted
that it might have "Lowlandic", possibly Dutch-Flemish origins because "bat"
is very much a part of the Lower Franconian and even Ripuarian and
Middle-Franconian vocabulary and means "to help, to support". Its use is
even documented as far south as the southern parts of Rhineland-Palatine
(ref. Friedrich Engels, Fraenkische Zeit), a common sentence is "et bat all
nix", meaning "it didn't help" or "it didn't work". But it is not part of
the Lower Saxon dialects, at least not in Sleswig-Holsten and I don't know
whether it is present in any Frisian dialect. If it is it might very well
have Anglo-Saxon roots, otherwise it might have entered the English language
from Lower Franconian areas such as Flanders.

Regards,

Helge

This "bat" as in "et bat all nix" looks like a cognate of Enlish "boot" in
the sense of "booty," (gain, something of value).
Be well,
John

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

I suspect that this bat in et bat all nix has a long vowel, thus ought to be
written baat (infinitive baten).

In fact, in Northern Low Saxon we use the verb baten [bQ:tn] ~ boten [bo:tn]
in the senses of 'to be of use', 'to be helpful', 'to be gainful', 'to
gain', 'to increase', and we use the now somewhat archaic noun Baat or Bate
~ Boot or Bote in the sense of 'help', 'use(fulness)', 'utility', 'support'.

Good hunch there, John!

Originally there were two nouns that eventually became "booty" and "boot."
(I'm not counting American slang "booty" that came from African American
English.)

One (Old English bōt) is related to Old Norse *býti* 'exchange', barter',
Saxon *büte* > b*ü**üt*, Dutch buit, German Beute, etc., all "booty" in the
best-know sense.

The other "booty" came to be analogically extended from "boot" (Old English
bót) and means 'gain', 'advantage', 'good', related to Old Frisian bôte, Old
Saxon bôta, Old Norse bót, Gothic bôta.  It is related to Indo-Aryan
bhad'good', 'useful'. English
boot in this sense is somewhat archaic. You still find it in the expression
"... to boot".

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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