LL-L "Language politics" 2008.12.12 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 12 December 2008 - Volume 03
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From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2008.12.11 (04) [E]

Dear Paul,



you wrote:

What on Earth has speaking a language got to do with finding a street?! I
have only the vaguest idea how to pronounce Mechelininkatu in Helsinki, but
I can still find it on map, and get there if I need to.

If they can't read maps, they shouldn't be driving trucks for a living.

But you should keep in mind that these truck drivers come from all over
Europe: from Lissabon or Dublin in the West to Moscow in the East, and
from Helsinki in the North to Neapel in the South - Turkey, Greece and all
the new Balcan states unmentioned. Even the cited Dutch/Frisian newspaper
("Leeuwarder Courant") misspelled one of the quoted street names!



Probably the drivers are on a minimum level prepared for a basic knowledge
of Standard German, but not for EFLS ;-)...



Allerbest!



Jonny Meibohm


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From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2008.12.11 (06) [E/German]

Hm, if they would be consequent in Lower Saxony in renaming difficult-to-be-
pronounced-place-names into easier-to-be-pronounced-place-names they should
start with Braunschweig and give it its old Low Saxon name Brunswik back,
certainly for anyone, whether German, Low Saxon or a speaker of any other
language, much easier to pronounce.....or Moenchengladbach to Glabeek or
what about Schleswig-Holstein to the much more simple Sleswig-Holsten....you
name them!

Helge


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language politics

Folks,

I really don't know what the big deal is. Place names and, yes, street names
may vary from language to language, and on signs and maps they ought be
given in whatever are the locally or regionally official languages. Sure, in
some cases this will require trilingual labeling (e.g., Glasgow - Glesca -
Glaschu, Bredstedt - Bredsted - Braist, Trieste - Trst - Triest, Jaca -
Chaca - Jaka), in some cases even more (e.g, Nordfriesland - Noordfreesland
- Nordfraschlönj - Nuurdfresklun - Nordfrisland). But so what?

I have a problem with people wanting to reduce the names of a place to only
one. This includes the decision to make Fryslân the only name for that
province. I find that silly. Fryslân is the Frisian name, Friesland the
Dutch name, and the capital is called Ljouwert in Frisian and Leeuwarden in
Dutch. Surely this doesn't threaten the Frisian language assertion movement.

Jonny's mention of place names above provides more example material:

English: Dublin
Irish: Baile Átha Cliath

Portuguese: Lisboa
English: Lisbon
German: Lissabon

Neapolitan: Nàpule
Italian: Napoli
English: Naples
German: Neapel

Many modern maps list only the version  in the respective national languages
(probably with exceptions such as "Dublin", usually with "Baile Átha Cliath"
in smaller letters added, since Irish is officially the language of Ireland
but foreigners are not familiar with the Irish names).

Finland has no problem with bilingual (Finnish - Swedish) maps, including
street maps, as well as street signs. Add Sami versions ones in the north of
the country and in Norwegian Lappland (e.g. Koutokeino - Guovdageaidnu –
Kautokeino, Sodankylä – Soađegilli – Suä'đjel, Karasjok – Kárášjohka –
Kaarasjoki, Nesseby – Unjárga - Uuniemi). (But I am disappointed to find
on-line representation of Rovaniemi and Finnish Lappland in Finnish and and
foreign languages only, not in Swedish and Sami.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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