LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.19 (04) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  19 January 2008 - Volume 04
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.19 (03) [E]


I always thought Dutch "jofel" was from Yiddish, because of it's
Amsterdam / Bargoens origin. So "jovial" would have nothing to do with it
then.

In colloquial Dutch "tuttig" is a very common adjective, meaning niminy
piminy, old fashioned, conservative, coy, conventional, bourgeois, naive,
simple minded, childish (mostly of women) etc. Seems to be the same word
as German LS  "tutig"

Ingmar

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Our Mark wrote this morning (his evening):

Could this word 'j*o*fel' be related to the English 'jovial' ie jolly,
cheerful, magnanimous, attributes of the Roman god Jove? Afrikaans also has
'joviaal'.

For what it's worth, it has a ring of possibility (if not genius) to me,
and
not only because of the close relationship of "v" and "f" in Dutch and the
well-known tendency among Germanic languages to apply Germanic stress to
loanwords (especially in earlier time).

Having ruminated on this splendid proposal about *jofel* for a while, I
came
to think of another Lowlandic word that, although perhaps not a loanword,
has a similar semantic range, including both negative and positive
depending
on context. It always describes a person or that person's attitude of
actions. It's a Low Saxon word that is also used in Missingsch (i.e. German
varieties on Low Saxon substrata) and Missingsch-derived North German: *
tutig* [ˈtʰuːtɪç] 'awkward', 'simple-minded', 'naive',
'childlike',
'innocent', 'trusting'. These glosses don't quite cover the range. I can't
think of one that describes this quality less as a fault, something like
"unquestioningly devoted and accommodating' perhaps, suggesting also a
certain sweetness in many contexts. A question can be *tutig* (innocent,
without preconception), or, say, a husband can act *tutig* for the sake of
peace (as in the British sitcom "Keeping up Appearances," known in the
Netherlands as "Schoon schijn" and in Germany as "Mehr Schein als Sein").

I have no idea about the origin of this word. Does anyone else?
Theoretically, the root ought to be **tuut*, but these days there's only *
Tuut* 'toot', 'horn' (for blowing on), and in Eastern Friesland dialects
the diminutive *Tutje* 'kiss'.

Are there any relatives in other Lowlands varieties.

(NB: In Dutch and Afrikaans spelling it would be **toetig*.)

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Ingmar,

Indeed, in the meantime I found the claim that *jofel* comes from Hebrew in
a couple of other places. One (
http://homepage.mac.com/schuffelen/duhebrew.html) claims that it comes from
Yiddish *jofe* and/or (<) Hebrew *jopheh* 'nice', 'useful' (sic), actually
'beautiful'. So it would be a word related to previously mentioned
*yofi*(both related to "beauty" as a sememe), and an
*-l* would have been added to it, supposedly in Bargoens, apparently not in
Yiddish (or does anyone know better?).

I'm somewhat skeptical about this and am wondering if this isn't just one
person's assumption adopted and perpetuated by others. Or is there is actual
evidence for this? I find Mark's hunch about "jovial" as the origin much
easier to go swallow.

Any further info, especially evidence, would be welcome.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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