LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.19 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  19 January 2008 - Volume 07
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Ron,

You wrote:

As for *jofel* , I assume it's all a guessing game when it comes to jargons
like Dutch Bargoens and German Rotwelsch, and unprinted ones are just as
good as printed ones as far as I am concerned.

Van Dale: jofel (1922 'goed') <Jidd. jofe (mooi, aangenaam) <Hebr. japhe

"Joviaal" has its stress on the last syllable in Dutch (not on the first
like in English) and "jofel" on the first, which makes it unlikely to derive
the word from "joviaal" I think.

Theo:

And so we have 'tut / toet / tuut' with the meaning of 'mouth', and there
you go: the link with Oldgermanic.

"Mouth"?! How so?


Een "tut" is a pacifier in Southern Dutch. "Tuit" (?~? Tüte (G)) = something
protruding, tapering off to a point, pouting > lips, mouth. "Toot" is vulgar
for mouth, "een totte" is Flemish for "a kiss" and "een toet" are pouting
lips (and "face" by extension).

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.19 (03) [E]

Dear Ron:
Subject: Etymology

Ron describes:
... a Low Saxon word that is also used in Missingsch ( i.e. German varieties
on Low Saxon substrata) and Missingsch-derived North German:
*tutig*[ˈtʰuːtɪç] 'awkward', 'simple-minded', 'naive', 'childlike',
'innocent',
'trusting'. These glosses don't quite cover the range. I can't think of one
that describes this quality less as a fault, something like "unquestioningly
devoted and accommodating' perhaps, suggesting also a certain sweetness in
many contexts. A question can be *tutig* (innocent, without preconception),
or, say, a husband can act *tutig* for the sake of peace (as in the British
sitcom "Keeping up Appearances," known in the Netherlands as "Schoon schijn"
and in Germany as "Mehr Schein als Sein").

Mark, (Afrikaans):
Meer skyn as syn.

Ron again:
I have no idea about the origin of this word. Does anyone else?
Theoretically, the root ought to be ** tuut*, but these days there's only *
Tuut* 'toot', 'horn' (for blowing on), and in Eastern Friesland dialects the
diminutive *Tutje* 'kiss'.

Are there any relatives in other Lowlands varieties.

(NB: In Dutch and Afrikaans spelling it would be * *toetig*.)

Mark:
One Afrikaans usage of 'toet'; as in, "Mannetjie van toet, was hy beter, dan
was hy goed." means worthless, cowardly, inconsequential, without
presence (a person, that is)

(The other doesn't apply - "Uit toet se tyd" - 'Since time out of mind'.

Ron, it seems to me you might well manage *any* language navigating blind;
from first (lingistic) principles. Either that or I must call in a priest to
exorcise you!

Yrs,
Mark

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From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, guys!

Mark:
One Afrikaans usage of 'toet'; as in, "Mannetjie van toet, was hy beter, dan
was hy goed." means worthless, cowardly, inconsequential, without
presence (a person, that is)

*Voilà!* The missing link I was looking for! Great!

Luc:

"een totte" is Flemish for "a kiss" and "een toet" are pouting lips (and
"face" by extension).

Ah! Hence ...

in Eastern Friesland dialects the diminutive *Tutje* 'kiss'.

Mark again:

Ron, it seems to me you might well manage *any* language navigating blind;
from first (lingistic) principles. Either that or I must call in a priest to
exorcise you!

Yah! I wish! Oh, and as for evil linguistic spirits, the Kahuna knows how to
deal with those. After all, *kahuna* (< *tafunga*) means 'shaman', not, as
commonly assumed, 'chief'.

Mahalo!
Reinhard/Ron
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