LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.25 (06) [A/E/LS]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  21 January 2008 - Volume 06
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From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <Kreimer at jpberlin.de>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.01.25 (04) [E]

Hey! Ron and all,

to inhibit the nidation, the settling down and further spredding of
an ugly name for a beautifull saxon variety, I hasten to clarify:

25.01.2008 Ron F. Hahn first detected correctly:

> Joachim coined a new name above: Osna-Sassisk

But than escalated and presumed to the pronouncement:

> That's funny! It's mixed German-Saxon. If it were all based on Low
> Saxon it would have to be Ossensassisk "Oxen Saxon," since the
> local Low Saxon name for Osnabrück is something like Ossenbrügge
> ("Oxen Bridge," "Oxbridge").

This statement misses any historical and linguistic fundament:

1. The word "Osna" doesn't exist as word or usual name in German. It
must be of Old Saxon or Germanic provenience. I don't know the Old-
Saxon name for Oxen, nor wether some exemplar of this kind of cattle
existed already in the sparely populated region without cattle-
breeding (which has been propagated in more extend there only in the
19. century.

2. The first historically bequeast name for the old town in - nearby
the last refuge of Saxon leader Widukind (against Charlemagne) and
arround the Monastery, bishopssee and the first grammar school in
Saxony, "Carolinum" - is from the late 8th century and latin

"Osnabrugensis".

It is hardly comprehensable, that this latinization of a supposed
original saxon name of the Place should be derived from not yet
existing Middel-Saxon (or the later Westfalian) calling of "Ossen-,
or Osen-/Asenbrug(c)e".

3. This calling Ossenbrügge and at least the interpretation in
reference to the deplorable fate and destiny of trek- or fattened
oxes is a late "volksetymologische" (popular reinterpretation) of the
Middel-/Modern Saxon Naming Osenbrucghe/Ossenbrügg(e).

4. Not evidenced but more verisimilar is the relation to the germanic/
old saxon pagan mythologic devine branch of Wotan's family called

"åsen",

a word radical which is refond in the Saxon name "osning" or "åsning"
for the Theutonian Forest besides, and even for the essential river
"Hase" (which will hardly derive from the German word for "hare").

Buawen batt, in school I learned also of the origin from a supposed
Germanic goddess "Osna", but that might be legend figment from a
later Germano-romantik period.

5. Beside all that, for me it's also a question of beauty of language
names, especially for our Saxon varieties. And "Ossen-Sassisk" sounds
ugly and seduces to mockery and denigration of the Osnabrugensian
Westphalian.

These are the reasons why I choose "Osna-Sassisk" to have and
propagate a shorter identifyer for thh modern Saxon language as
alternative to the for others a little bit tongue-braking name
"Ossenbrüggesk(et) Westfälsk". It should be allowed to  preserve Old
Saxon or earlier Germanic parts within the New-Saxon names, isn't it?

So please everybody, don't let me read "Ossen-Platt" or suchlike. If
you dislike "Osna-Sassisk" or "Osna-Westphalian" then use the
ordinary names "Osnabrück-Westphalian", "Ossenbrügger Platt",
"Ossenbrüggesk" etc.

"Alle uuse!", bliewet munter!
Yours faithfully

Joachim Kreimer-de Fries

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.25 (01) [A/E/LS]

Beste Utz, Arend, Almal:

Onderwerp: LL-L "Names"

Wat betreft Slamat(je).

> In 't Nederlaands woordenboek stiet de beschrieving dat 't  een
> Indonesische woord is en "gelok" of "veule heil" betiekend.

Kan dit nou die einste woord wees as ons 'Slamaaier?' Betekende 'n Moslem
van Maleise afkoms hier in Die Kaap gevestig.

Hierdie woord is 'n afkorting van '*Is*lamaaier'. Ek kan kwalik aanvaar dat
dit enigsens afbrekend opgevat kan word, veral in die oerstamtaal van die
einste volk. Daar bestaan wel deesdaë 'n polieties-korrekte neiging om
'Slamaaier' buite gebruik te stel as gevolg van negetiewe opvatting of erger
nog as 'n skelwoord, maar in sulke gevalle, hoe noem ons dan 'n Slamaaier?
Hy is nie meer die laaste drie honderd jaar 'n Maleier nie, hy praat nie die
taal nie, en Afrika is net so onteenseglik sy geboortegrond soos Afrikaans
sy moedertaal is, en Islam sy geloof!

Hou maar Slamaaier, en wend die naam en vat maar die volk net soos ons
digter beide opgevat het, met hoflikheid.

Die Uwe
Mark
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