LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.28 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  28 January 2008 - Volume 07
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.28 (05) [E]

On the Dutch side, Modern Low Saxon has wief [Bif] - plural wieven
[Bi:b-m] or wieve ["Bi:v@], depending on the dialect. As Standard Dutch
wijf, but a bit less so, the word usually has a pejorative connotation.

An interesting phenomenon are the so called "Witte Wieven", a kind of
nebulous fairies roaming the nocturnal heaths, bogs and moorlands of the
North Eastern Netherlands, where Low Saxon is spoken. I've witnessed them
myself several times... especially in the past, when my parents and us
were driving back at lonely Winter nights from my grandparents in
De Achterhoek to or new home in Drenthe. Are those Witte Wieve(n) know in
Northern Germany too?

Ingmar

Gary Davenport asked:

I am interested in the use of cognates of the the English word *wife* in
the Germanic languages, Lowlands here specifically. For instance, German
retains *Weib, *while Dutch retains ***jf* (a pejorative if I understand
correctly) and the OED2 lists cognates for O. Frisian and O. Saxon
(*wif*). I haven't found any data on modern Frisian, Plattdeutsch, or
other Lowlandic cognates or usage, however.

R. F. Hahn answered:

In Modern Low Saxon on the German side, the singular form is conventionally
spelled *Wief* (pronounced [vi:f]) and the plural form *Wiever* (['vi:v3`])
or *Wieber* (['vi:b3`]), depending on if you are dealing with a -v- dialect
or a -b- dialect. The plural can also be *Wiefslüüd'* with *-lüüd'*
(['vi:fsly:.(d)] < *-lüde* being this "-folk" thing again, as in
English "womenfolk").

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Ingmar, *witte wieven* rings a bell, but I'm not sure if I heard about them
in a German context. It wouldn't be surprising if they were featured in
communities near the Netherlands border though. I'm not talking about the
various forms of ghosts known as "white ladies" that occur in the folklore
practically all over Northern Europe.

As for derogatory versus non-derogatory mentioned by Diederik just now,
there's what seems to be the male counterpart. In German, *Kerl* tends to be
meant in a derogatory sense, unless it's in the clear context of "strong,"
"strapping," etc., or in rare expressions like *netter Kerl* 'nice guy'.

In Low Saxon of Germany, *keyrl* (*Keerl ~ Kierl*) does not by default sound
negative but can be made to come across that way. It can even mean
"boyfriends." I believe it's semantically similar (and related) to Dutch *
kerel* and to Scots *carle* in some ways (and to the feminine Scots
equivalent *carline* for older women). The English cognate "churl," now
pretty archaic, may have a somewhat more negative ring to it, though perhaps
both *carle* and "churl" imply "unsophisticated."  Apparently, *Kerl*, *
kerel*, *carle* etc. started off as alluding to mature age (as Scots *
carline* continues to do), going back to Indo-European **ĝer-* 'mature',
'old', 'aged', 'decrepit' (as in "*ger*iatric," "*ger*ontology," etc.). And,
yes, it's related to the names Karl, Charles, Carlos, etc., apparently also
to Slavic **kral* 'king', 'emperor' (because of the (in)famous Charlemagne).

The "wife" group apparently goes back to Indo-European **uei-b*- ~
**uei-p-*'to wrap around', 'to turn around', 'walk around'. Hmm ...

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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