LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.31 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  30 January 2008 - Volume 05
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From: Denis Dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.31 (04) [E]

In Westflemish (Kortrijks) we have the same feature. One says "ne mannemins"
 ("a man-man" "ein Man-Mensch). The gender is masculin
But the female "een vro-mins" ( a women-man, ein Weib-mensch), the gender
here, is neuter.
The suprising thing is, that the female is objectivated as being "neuter".
Historical Sexism?  (:))

Denis Dujardin

Op 31-jan-08, om 19:35 heeft Lowlands-L List het volgende geschreven:
- Show quoted text -

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Ingmar,

You wrote:

Something I always stroke me as funny is the North Brabant expression:
 "mens" lit. human being, in the sense of husband, in Dutch just "man".


Southern Brabantish sometimes uses "mens" for wife, but then it gets neuter
gender:

"Da mens èè noeët ni vööl van eul lèève g'ad" (the poor lass had a tough
life)

I think such usage can also be observed elsewhere though, and generally
wants to evoke compassion (in lieu, you could also hear "da schààp").

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hey, Luc and Ingmar,

It's very similar in Low Saxon dialects of Germany.

   - *dey minsch* *(de Minsch*) 'the human being', 'the person' - pronoun
   *hey* (*he*) 'he' (masculine)
   - *et/it/dat minsch* (*et/it/**dat Minsch*) 'the woman' (pejorative) -
   pronoun *et ~ it ~ dat* 'it' (neuter)

But the latter is quite negative, pretty much like "the b..." or "the piece
of work" (in reference to a woman). It carries "despicable" with it.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron


*Denis Dujardin*
*Omgevingen*
*dujardin at pandora.be*
*www.denisdujardin.be*

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LLL-L "Etymology" 2008.01.31 (04) [E]

Actually, dear Luc, "dat mens" is standard Dutch for "that woman" in the
Netherlands, too.
In Standard Dutch, Reinhard, "de mens" means man, as in mankind, as in:
De mens kwam in Amerika aan via de Bering-straat, i.e. man reached America
through Bering Strait. "Het mens" is one individual human being, both man
or woman, but it can also mean "woman" in a more negative or endearing
sense. But in the special North Brabant dialect expression "munne mens" it
means my husband.

Ingmar

Luc Hellinckx schreef:
Beste Ingmar,
You wrote:
Something I always stroke me as funny is the North Brabant expression:
"mens" lit. human being, in the sense of husband, in Dutch just "man".
Southern Brabantish sometimes uses "mens" for wife, but then it gets neuter
gender:
"Da mens èè noeët ni vööl van eul lèève g'ad" (the poor lass had a tough
life)
I think such usage can also be observed elsewhere though, and generally
wants to evoke compassion (in lieu, you could also hear "da schààp").

Reindert schreef:
Hey, Luc and Ingmar,
It's very similar in Low Saxon dialects of Germany.
  - *dey minsch* *(de Minsch*) 'the human being', 'the person' - pronoun
  *hey* (*he*) 'he' (masculine)
  - *et/it/dat minsch* (*et/it/**dat Minsch*) 'the woman' (pejorative) -
  pronoun *et ~ it ~ dat* 'it' (neuter)
But the latter is quite negative, pretty much like "the b..." or "the piece
of work" (in reference to a woman). It carries "despicable" with it.
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