LL-L "Language studies" 2008.07.01 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 01 July 2008 - Volume 03
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From: Ivison dos Passos Martins <ipm7d at OI.COM.BR>
Subject: Definite Articles to Reinhard and Ingmar

Thank you Reinhard and Ingmar,

  I want to learn more about Scandinavian Languages. I've been studying
Danish a lot.
The origin of the O + A articles in Portuguese?
It is the same in Portuguese both Brazilian and European. It comes from
Latin, as Reinhard last posted:
Singular:
masculine: ille
feminine: illa
neuter: illud

Plural:
masculine: illi
feminine: illae
neuter: illa

   They became EL LO and LA. As in Portuguese (The same in Spanish)
almost every masculine word must end in -o and femonine words in -a. So we
assimilated the "o" from the neuter and as we don't have any neuter nouns,
the article began to be used for masculine and former neuter latin nouns
that turned out to be masculine. "El" became obsolete then. Spanish, on
the other hand, kept this LO because it has some neuter adjectives as
BUENO in: Lo Bueno (Something that is good)which is different from El
Bueno (He who is good).

  I may send you something else on the ptg artigle, if you will, Ingmar.
Have a nice day.

   Regards,

       Ívison.

----------

From: Ivison dos Passos Martins <ipm7d at OI.COM.BR>
Subject: Danish long vowels

Hi everybody,

  I've been studying Danish and I am a little bit confused. The IPA in
the book says that long "o" /o:/ is pronounced like oo in English.
However, I've seen some movies in Danish and I heard the long "o" as if it
were a Spanish "o", not the oo sound as in English. A Norwegian friend of
mine who lived here said that in Norwegian it raelly sounds like in
English, but maybe in Danish they pronounce it another way.

  So how should I say "bog" (book) in Danish? Should it be pronounced as
in English or as in Spanish?


    Thanks.

----------

From: ipm7d at oi.com.br
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2008.06.30 (04) [E]

Hi Ingmar,
>


Here is a table that explains the origin of our definite article.
I've sent you some explanation about it, but I'm afraid you didn't
receive it.
So here it is something about them:

The definite articles in  portuguese come from the latin singular and
plural accusative demonstrative pronoun (this, that)  as you can see
bellow:

ILLUM > ello > elo > lo > o (masc - the)

ILLAM > ella > ela > la > a (fem. - the)

ILLOS > ellos > elos > los > os (masc. plural the)

ILLAS > ellas > elas > las > as (fem. plural the)

  Other scholars say that the masculine form "o" comes from the neuter
illud > lu > lo > o. As we don't have any neuter nouns, and the neuter
that entered the language sometimes ended in "o" (a characteristic
masc. ending) we adopted this 'o' form to determine all masculine and
those neuters that had become masculine in portuguese. This would
derive the definite aricle from the nominative.

  As a teacher of Portuguese, may father tells me that our lexicon is
based in the accusative forms, not in the nominative, and that it must
have happened the same in the case of the articles. As for Spanish, I
can tell you that the determiners el, la and lo come from the
nominative. That marks the difference between Portuguese and Spanish as
for the determiners.

  Well, feel free to make questions about ptg and spn. I'll be very
glad if I can be helpful.

God bless,

    Ívison.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language studies

Hi, Ívison!

I think it's fantastic that you're now learning another Germanic language.
This will deepen your understanding a lot.

But of course, Danish and other North Germanic languages are not Lowlandic,
even though they've had a lot of contacts with Lowlands languages. General
questions and discussions about non-Lowlandic features are all right if they
have some sort of relevance to our Lowlands focus. Asking specific learners'
questions about Danish or other non-Lowlandic languages is not relevant to
our focus. I suggest you ask on the List if any member is able and willing
to help you,  and you could then move the conversation to correspondence
away from the List.

But, as I said earlier, it's all right to ask such questions if their
answers promise to be relevant to Lowlands languages as well.

Good luck with your studies!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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