LL-L "Etymology" 2008.07.15 (01) [E]

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.07.14 (08) [E]

Git-morgen oykh, khaveyrim,

I always wondered about the initial k- in Germany's Low Saxon "keen"...
but now I see the Old and Middle Low Saxon examples with initial g-, it
shows that "keen" is a loan from High German. Low Saxon in the Netherlands
has "geen", "gin", "gien", "gain", as Dutch "geen".

Btw1 In several West Flemish and French Flemish dialect, a composed
construction with "en" as in French "ne ... pas" is still in use, as it
was in Middle Dutch. Something like "ik en weet niet" for Standard
Dutch "ik weet niet" I don't know.

Btw2 I thought Afrikaans had "g'n" not "geen", just like "'n" for
Dutch "een".

Ingmar

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Gut-morgn, tayerer khaver Leybl!

I won't give you the actual answer, don't want to be accused of stealing
folks' thunder, but I'll give you older equivalents of German *kein*,
Yiddish קיין* keyn*, Low Saxon *keyn* (*keen*), Dutch *geen*, Afrikaans *
geen* 'no ...', 'none'.

Old German: dehein, deheinîg, neining, nihein, niheinîg, nohein, noheinîg
Middle German: kein ('any', 'no ...', 'none'!)
Old Saxon: gên, nên, nênig, nigên
Middle Saxon: neyn, gyn
Old Frisian: nânên, nên
Old English: nǽnig; nán

If nothing else, it tells you something about the timeline.

Reinhard/Ron

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Inging!

I'm really glad Lee brought this up and you responded with that interesting
question.

First of all, let me say that I think that the Old Saxon form *nigên* offers
a crucial clue: **nig*+*ên* "not one". The next clue is then Middle Saxon *
gyn*, probably preceded by the intermediate step **geyn*. So it's *[ni]g+eyn
*.

Old Saxon *neowiht* 'not', 'nothing' (< basic **ne* 'not') seems to have
been reduced to *nig...* before a vowel, supposedly after elesion of *-t*.
Old German has *niowiht* and earlier *ni wiht* for the same -- from *wiht* =
"wight" ~ "aught" 'creature', 'being', '(little) thing' See also Old Dutch *
niewiht*, Old East Frisian *nâwet, nâwit, nauwet, nauwit, naut, nôwet*,
English "naught". So it might have started with something like "not (even) a
little critter (> thing)".

How this pronoun became an adjective is another matter.

I always think of the dropping of the **ni* *"no(t)" part as similar to what
happened in French: *ne ... pas* > *pas* 'not', **aucune personne*, *pas une
personne* > *personne* 'nobody'.

Ingmar, as you probably know, Old German developed intervocalic /k/ to "h"
which probably was pronounced much like Modern German "ch" ([ç] ~ [x]). I
suspect that *nihein* ("not+one") came to be reanalyzed as /nik+ein/ when
dropping of the /ni.../ part became a possibility, or, to look at it in a
different way, [ç] ~ [x] cannot make syllable onsets.

German *kein* then "inspired" Low Saxon *keyn* which in many or most
dialects took the place of native *geyn* ~ *gyn*.

Lee, I believe that קיין *keyn* goes clear back to Old Yiddish. This would
be consistent with *kein* *[kʰɛɪn] in Middle German from which, as a result
of an antisemitic surge and ghettoization, Yiddish initially developed
(probably in conjunction with earlier Judeo-German, i.e., Old and Middle
German with Judeo-specific lexical items, more a "jargon," if you will).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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