LL-L "Phonology" 2008.05.28 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 28 May 2008 - Volume 01
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From: Travis Bemann <tabemann at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2008.04.29 (03) [E]

> From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Names"
>
> Beste Gael,
>
> You wrote:
>
>     It seems that the name Basil traveled west with Crusaders returning
> home. Not sure how, where, and when basil the herb traveled around the
> world; but it seems that Basil is short for king ("basile΄us"). I can see
> how it would have been pronounced with accent on the second syllable
> (Basíle)… and how that would sound better with a unvoice "V" in front
> (Vasile).  There is a prime minister in Romania with Vasile as a last
name.
>
>     Is this related to the way that pre and post nominal adjectives play
out
> regionally? The Anglo rhythm of sentences favors an abrupt, short Básil.
> Names seem to be especially prone to this sort of shift. The point in my
> defending 'Bazzle' as a theologically-correct pronunciation is not about
> feeling it to be superior, just correct in the context of sharing research
> with others beyond the US.  It sounds much less "American"…and yet still
> recognizable as a part of a discourse between English-speakers.  Outside
> that context (in the mainstream of just plain US folks), this "alternate"
> pronunciation sounds pretentious—After all we are a nation that is famous
> for rejecting anything to do with kings.
>
>     However, most people here in the US would not know that St. Basil's
> association with the name had already reversed this elitist edge long,
long
> ago. It is notable, though, that he was still a rather forceful guy. His
> homeland of Cappadocia was known for being a muddy, rural backwater in
those
> days… Maybe that's where the phrase "stuck-in-the-mud" comes from. I think
> "beat-around-the-Bush" comes from another less-than-urbane place and time
> (like TX maybe).  Wonder how the herb fits into this?  It's interesting to
> ponder over what favored modes of pronouncing words might carry along with
> them.
>
> Gael
>
> Ron wrote:
>
> "Proper" and "incorrect" ... hmm ... OK, so "Bazzle" is the preferred
> pronunciation in English-speaking Orthodox and Catholic monastic circles,
> but the "BAY-zil" pronunciation is considered standard in many other
> circles. I don't think there's a "proper" for the entire English language.
> Of course, those to whom the ecclesiastic contention is important the
> "Bazzle" pronunciation may seem superior.
>
> After all, "Bazzle" is a far cry from the original Greek Βασίλειος
> (Vasíleios). More "proper" or "correct" would be something like *Vasily or
> even better *Vasiley (with a sharp "s" and the main stress on the second
> syllable), thus similar to the Russian pronunciation. Almost all imported
> names, especially Greek-rooted ones, are "mispronounced" in English, or
> anywhere else. But they are standard anyway, and some have more than one
> standard pronunciation, this being one of them. Which one is better would
be
> up to dialect and to personal preference.
>
> I just wonder: would there be any word that is pronounced shorter in the
US
> than in the UK?
> For some reason, I have this idea that on average, UK-speakers tend to
speak
> faster and use shorter vowels than US-speakers. Btw, in Belgium, the West
> speaks significantly faster than the East (in all respects).
>
> My point is, would anybody ever have reflected on who St. Basil
historically
> was, and then have adapted his speech?

At least here in southeastern Wisconsin, the two would actually be
equal in length, as [ˈb̥e̞ːzɯː] ("Bayzil") and [ˈb̥ɛ̯æzɯː] ("Bazzle"),
but that's just because historical English vowel length has been
replaced altogether with a new vowel length historically rooted in
vowel length allophony (but which has been subsequently messed up by a
lot of elision and like), similar to what happened with vowel quality
and length in Icelandic and Faroese..
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