LL-L "History" 2008.11.15 (04) [E]

Sat Nov 15 22:12:52 UTC 2008

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L O W L A N D S - L - 15 November 2008 - Volume 04
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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2008.11.15 (03) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: History

> Tom Carty wants me to pass some information on to you. I cannot enclose it
here because of copyright reasons and because attachments are rejected by
the server.*

A similar collection of coins was found in the Tongeren area (actually in
Heers)  about 5 years ago. The new one in Maastricht is the first collection
of that size for the Netherlands.

http://users.telenet.be/sabrinagijbels_dekelten/Paginas/09_00_Vondsten.htm

http://www.oud-limburg.be/art10-1.html

About half of the coins in both cases (Heers and Maastricht) belong to the
Eburons. The others are not identified in the newspapers, some sources refer
to the Rhine area or to the Batavi for the finding in Maastricht.

There are a couple of odd things:

1 - The *Eburons* are often identified as Germanic. However they had *Celtic
names*, as e.g. their leader *Ambiorix*

2 - Officially the whole tribe was murdered by Ceasars troup's. Soon
afterwards a new tribe appears: the *Tungri.*

It is not clear whether the Tungri were a immigrated tribe or the former
Eburon tribe with a new name.

3 - Ceasar's army was defeated by the Eburons in *Atuatuca*. About 50 years
later one finds a town *Atuatuca Tungrorum* (the actual Tongeren in
Belgium). Historians never were able to prove whether or not both Atuatuca's
were at the same place.

4 - Many references to soldiers from the *Tungri* tribe, serving in the
Roman army, are found all over England (cf. Archeological collections)

5 - The extend of the Roman *Civitas Tungrorum* district is generally
considered to coincide with the bishopric of Tongeren -> Maastricht -> Liège
(The bishop had to move two times).Roughly, before the 16th century the
extend included the provinces of Limburg, Liège and the East of Antwerp in
Belgium, as wel as Limburg and the Center-East of Noord-Brabant in the
Netherlands and the town of Aachen.

6 - The *Town of Tongeren area* penetrated as a kind of peninsula of the
principality of Liège into the county of Loon. While the justice system of
Loon was "reichsunmittelbar" even when the county itself became a fief of
Liege, Tongeren always belonged to Liège for justice.

That area has a *very districtive Limburgish dialect* (Tongerlands or
Tungerländisch). Some linguists think it has been germanized later tha the
Loon area.

7 - As far as I can trace (16th century) all my ancestors are from that
area.

A year ago I had my total DNA (all chromosomes) analysed by "Anchestry by
DNA".

They found

100% European

0% Sub-Sahara African

0% East Asean

0% Native Amercan

and a further split up of the European part (called Euro_DNA)

75% *Northern European* (with margin of error 60 to 88 %)

18 % Middle Eastern (with margin of error 8 to 29 %)

4% Southeastern European  (with margin of error 0 to 21 %)

3% South Asean  (with margin of error 0 to 16 %)

I also had Y (father-father line) and mtDNA (mother-mother line) done
separatedly by both "Oxford Ancestors" and "Family tree DNA".

My Y refers to the people of the paleolitic "*Aurignacian*" culture,
compatible with the first Celtic tribes in Brittain of more than 9000 years
ago.

My mtDNA refers to *Tuscany *of about 17000 years ago.

Just the latter two refer to very particular singular lines.

The total DNA (a mixture coming from all ancestors) though may be very
similar for many people of the area (since all know ancestors lived there).

I think more people should get these tests done for allowing one to have a
clear sight on migration.

But I doubt it helps to solve the question whether the *Eburons* were *
Celtic* or *Germanic.*

Regards,

Roger
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