LL-L "Language use" 2008.11.20 (04) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 20 November 2008 - Volume 04
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From: Arend Victorie <victorie.a at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.11.20 (03) [E/LS]

Moi,

't Huus van de taol in Drenthe hef hiel mooie buttons en stikkers daor stiet
op "Tegen mij kuj Drèens praoten" Ik hebbe der al verscheiden an mien
kompels uut-edield.

Groet,

Arend Victorie

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From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2008.11.20 (02) [D/E]



Hello all,



all this is very fascinating. Why should a person deny his/her own language?
To me it seems rather defensive. No, none of you attacked anybody, I'm sure!
:-) But just think: Can it be a sort of hiding? In most cases you addressed
a single person, isolated, not just a dozen of them talking in their
language. You addressed them in their own language. And in most cases the
person you addressed adopted the language of a greater community -- the
language of "the majority" or, in extreme cases, the globalized anonymous
English, compared to which all other languages are minorities. This looks
like hiding behind an anonymous mask. -- If you belong to a minority and a
stranger adresses you in your own special language, you have two choices:

1. Answer in the minority language and thus compromise yourself as to where
you come from; this is giving a great deal of information about yourself,
and it might turn against you -- e.g. you may be despised for provincialism
by the stranger or by others who hear you;

2. Do as if you belonged to quite another, much greater, perhaps stronger
group, thus keeping everything special about yourself in the dark and giving
the stranger as little information as possible.



Of course that is poor camouflage, and a speaker who puts on another
language in fact gives even more information about him/herself, but it may
be an instinct to keep others from your own whereabouts. It seems to me the
neandertaler is peeping out somewhere here. Strangers have no right to know
where your cave lies and how strong is your group. Data protection! If
people would only be half as nice with their email address!



I have often seen this happen among Plattdeutsch-Speakers here in northern
Germany. I know that a person speaks Platt, I address him/her in Platt,
quite politely, and still they answer in High German, which I read as: Keep
your distance! I will not let you come near my thoughts! -- Such people,
mostly elderly, use the language only among their closest friends, often
among those who have shared part of their lives, fates, troubles --
absolutely trustworthy members of their minority community, mates who may
know all about them and will never do harm. My mother tells me her father
didn't want his own children to address him in Platt; this was allowed only
to his old country mates, to talk of times past. It was not done to keep the
children at High German, it was to protect his own intimacy, his
remembrances, his individuality. I think the fact that language is the
material that thoughts are made of is also very important in this context.
Language *is* intimate.



But what can we do about it? I think people who feel they want to hide must
be reassured, as a first thing. Friendliness and patience is much more
important than insisting on a language. Some fear, some pressure to
assimilate to a majority group or an ideal, perhaps even some vanity, is
behind this behaviour. If a person will not share his/her language with you,
very little or nothing would be won by forcing them. The language might not
profit either. It can not be separated from the people. -- So we would have
to make minority people strong, fearless and proud to preserve their
languages?! Every single human being?! Looks like no little task! If we
could do it, much would be won independent of language.



Skeptical greetings to you all,



Marlou

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use


Arend, in Noordduytschland hebt sey buttons un pins mit "Ik snack ok Platt"
up.

Marlou, you're quite right. Especially for older people, but also for pretty
much everyone in close village communities, use of Low Saxon is often
reserved for close relationships. Switching to the language sets a
different, more intimate tone.

I believe that this is the results of generations of virtually hiding one's
language from the outside world. It began with German northward encroachment
by way of administration and education. It ushered in an era of Low Saxon as
a group of sociolects. The higher up the socio-economic ladder you were the
more obligated you were to use only German. German became a status symbol.
Nobody likes to be at or near the bottom of the heap (unless he or she wears
it as a badge of honor). So Low Saxon retreated more and more from the
public arena. People only used it in "safe" contexts: at home, with good
friends, with fellow villagers, and perhaps at the weekly market and in
neighborhoods stores out of earshot of higher-ups and visiting townsfolk. In
other words, it became an "intimate language" or "familial language," so to
speak. As a stranger, you're most lucky to break the barrier if you use the
language with people of the same age or younger. Otherwise it might be
perceived as being forward.

I've been told that Low Saxon was for quite some time the language of the
Hamburg Senate, not all that long ago either, and that this was at least in
part to keep out Johnnies-Come-Lately, all those German-speaking *Quiddjes*,
non-natives that might get Senate seats by virtue of wealth. So apparently
it was used as a guild or club language to keep out the newly arrived
"riffraff."

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron
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