LL-L "Traditions" 2008.10.15 (01) [D/E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 15 October 2008 - Volume 01
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From: rick denkers <info at d-denkers.speedlinq.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2008.10.14 (02) [E]

Beste Diederik,



Je hebt gelijk: Haloween wordt buiten een beperkte groep om niet gevierd in
Nederland. In het Noorden al helemaal niet vanwege het feit dat we dan Sint
Maarten vieren. In essentie exact hetzelfde feest. Kinderen gaan zingend
langs de deuren en krijgen als beloning snoep. Dus ergens stammen Sint
Maarten en Haloween van hezelfde feest af. Hier in de Zuid-Oost hoek van
Drenthe is het zelfs nog altijd een feest wat zeer sterk leeft. Elk jaar
komen er bij mij tientallen kinderen aan de deur. Uiteraard gaan ook mijn
kinderen 'langs de deuren'.



Tjeu,



Rick


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From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2008.10.14 (02) [E]

from Heather Rendall   heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk

re Hallowe'en

My childhood memories are two

One: apple bobbing and apple dangling and playing forfeits on the evening of
Hallowe'en illuminated by swedes ( not pumpkins) carved hollow containing
lit candles

Two: going to church with the school the next morning to celebrate All
Hallows / Saints  Day

I don't think the two ever became related in my mind. They were just what
one did.

My mother was our Girl Guide Captain and would make a point of celebrating
Hallowe'en with all the activities above: not for their pagan connotations
but just for the fun of getting wet ( apple bobbing) or seeing people having
problems ( apple dangling - especially with the added delight of using
toffeed apples rather than just plain apples; watching people get themselves
into a total sticky mess - such fun!. She also told a ghoulish story to us
Guides who were bindfolded and as she recounted the tale, objects mentioned
in the story were passed round the Listening Circle e.g. a peeled grape was
a witch's eye: a wet shoe lace was a dead worm etc etc. We all knew what the
objects were BUT not being able to see what was about to be put into one's
hand was always thrilling - and disturbing!

My sister-in-law also knows this type of story-telling and has amused us
with it at any family gathering not just Hallowe'en.

Heather

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Traditions

Dear Rick, I think you are right in saying that Martinmas and Halloween have
been linked along the way, though I would not say they were derived from the
same holiday. I would say they came to be fused. This seems to apply to the
case of much of Northern Germany as well. In addition Michaelmas (with its
autumn lantern tradtion) came to be integrated into this. In parts of
Northern Germany, such as the Lower Elbe region, the tradition of children
going door to door -- Dutch *langs de deuren*, Low Saxon *langs dey doeren*(
*langs de D**œrn*, literally "along the doors") -- for treats, which is also
a feature of Martinmas, came to be shifted to New Year's Eve (Low Saxon *
Oldjahrsavend*, literally "Old Year's Eve"). This is when *Rummelpottlopen*or
*Rummelpottgahn* used to be practiced. The friction drum called
*Rummelpott*(lit. "rumble pot", known in the Netherlands as
*rommelpot*, in the eastern provinces as *foekepot*), is no longer played
these days, but the custom retains its name. What's more, during their
door-to-door visits, children are dressed up and sing or recite verses (as
they (used to) do on Martinmas). I suppose there is a link with mumming
there, which seems to be derived from pre-Christian traditions of driving
out evil spirits to make room for a fresh start in the new year when the sun
returns. In its supposedly least adulterated form, this can be observed in
parts of Alemanic-speaking Alpine areas where men dressed up as trolls
"cleanse" villages with loud music, stomping and yelling (something very
much reminiscent of Kayapo, Ya̧nomamö and other indigenous Amazonian
traditions). Most probably the origin of the Scandinavian Christmas
tradition of people holding hands and dancing (stomping) and singing
throughout their homes is related to this apparently global spiritual
cleansing tradition as well.

Thanks for that nice summary of Halloween memories of an English woman,
Heather. It mentions most of what I've known of traditional English
Halloween, traditional in fairly recent times.

This would make a lovely vignette for our Traditions series (
http://lowlands-l.net/traditions/). If you don't want to publish it
yourself, perhaps we could make it more anonymous as a third-person summary
(which I could do, unless someone else volunteered). Please think about it.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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