LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.12 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 12 January 2009 - Volume 02
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.11 (09) [E]

Richard Dawkins discusses this in "Unweaving the Rainbow", where he argues
that science, far for destroying the poetry of the world, makes it even more
remarkable. (The poet Keats accused Newton of destroying the beauty of the
rainbow by explaining it).



Paul

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.10 (01) [E]

Jacqueline asked:  "Does this have anything to do with whether we say
"zevenenvijftig" or "fifty seven"?"

Back in another life-time of mine, I worked for AT&T (the telephone company)
in the USA.  The story there went like this:  Before AT&T went to direct
dialing, they did a study of customers and found that most people can
remember things in blocks of 3 or 4 numbers most easily.  Therefore, we have
the USA system of three number area codes, three number exchanges, and four
number individual lines.  I've noticed that other countries I've visited
seem to stick with pairs of numbers whenever they can, instead of the 3-3-4
pattern.

Now, keep in mind that the USA has Social Security Numbers (a national old
age insurance system) that come in 9 digits, but the pattern goes 3-2-4.
Most everyone here memorizes their Social Security Number in that rhythmic
way, saying 123, pause, 45, pause, 6789.  I don't know which came first –
the Social Security Number or the telephone number, but I'll bet one
influenced the other when it came to establishing patterns.

Mark Brooks

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.10 (01) [E]


Given that the entire world population can be expressed in just 10 digits, I
can't work out why we need a 16-digit anything!



Paul

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language programming" 2009.01.11 (02) [E]

Beste Luc, Sandy, Marlou & All:



Subject: LL-L "Language programming"



    This is a very important string. I cannot immediately motivate my
thesis, but I know I am not alone in my assurance that language 'programs'
the Mind, to its possessor's great advantage or otherwise. This is why the
technical terminology & jargon so fascinates me. Certainly, a culture that
must deal with peculiar local conditions & isolated personal circumstances
develops terminology applicable to their condition, without which a stranger
is utterly at a loss. I refer not only to the term itself but the concept it
embraces & its relationship to the study as a whole.

    For a modern example, until Einstein developed the concept of a 'Local
Frame of Reference', Classical Newtonian Physics was at a loss to explain
phenomena already subject to observation.



Sandy, you  ultimately wrote:

> Re Bushmen, I was somewhat wrong, they happen to count to four (not
> three) and then say many. Maybe their system matches the five fingers
> of one hand, with which they may want to sign those numbers...



And:

Traditionally, Bushmen are hunter-gatherers, so their language is probably
still rooted in that stage. Once agriculture took off, the notion of
"property" must have boomed, making new ideas necessary...



Mark:

The Bushmen *I* know can certainly count beyond three. Their system is
decimal as I can understand. We all have ten fingers, but their numeral
terminology goes up to twenty. Well we have toes also. Beyond that they go
up in multiples of men under the same system. What I *can't* understand is
the development in the Middle-East of numerology in base 12 & base sixty.



It is wrong to assume hunter-gatherers (at least on this continent) do not
need to count beyond three. Men were not initially alone at the top of the
food-chain, & the other major predators are also social. You *need* to be
able to count the number of Lions or Hyenas or Cape Hunting Dogs in your
locale, to know where they are, & how many, & to transmit this information
quickly & exactly to your fellows in earshot & eyeshot (signing). Also,
dividing & sharing food & water, & remembering the division for subsequent
reference, demands a stable numeral system. You are a hunting-group of
between fifteen & thirty & you need to know, for example, if a given
water-source can support twenty in a day, or not, & to what extent it may
fall short.



Keep this string on line, please!



Yrs,

Mark



BTW It may be the elevation & the thin atmosphere of our Highveld, but not a
few of European stock with young eyes can see & are on record as having seen
from here the four moons of Jupeter with the unaided eye.



PPS.

Does Reinhard Hahn know of a certain Theophilus Hahn, a German, the sometime
curator of the Grey Collection, & a great philologist & anthropologist of
the KhoiKhoi & San?


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language programming

Mark,

I certainly know *of* the missionary and linguist Theophilus Hahn.

There are many Hahns all over the place, in Namibia also Carl Hugo Hahn.
Why, there are particularly many famous and infamous American Hahns, such as
Dave Hahn, David Hahn (several of them), Erwin Hahn, Hilary Hahn, James K.
Hahn, Jessica Hahn, Kimberly Hahn and Scott Hahn. And there is the
German-Jewish-Basque-Venezuelan-French composer Reynaldo Hahn (Marcel
Proust's lover). Not to mention all them German and Austrian Hahns, and the
Dutch (de) Haan's. However, outside my immediate family there is no blood
relation with any Hahn. Had my paternal grandfather not been adopted by a
Holstein farmer called Hahn, who knows what my surname would be now?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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