LL-L "Language history" 2009.07.25 (02) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 25 July 2009 - Volume 02
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From: bsu295 at bangor.ac.uk
Subject: LL-L "Language history" 2009.07.24 (03) [EN]

T'reet Sandy,

How do? I remember looking this same thing up a couple of years as most if
not allof the traditional Northern Dialects, from at least the bottom of
lancashire (manchester) and Yorkshire up, say the same thing, i.e. the 'eet'
insteadof the 'ight' of standard and Southern English. I can't quite
remember what I came to learn however. Although I think is was a
scandanavian thing, or perhaps thought to be older more original way of
saying it (if that is even truely possible). I have a feeling I learnt it on
either the Lancastrian dialect or Northumbrian dialect society web site. I
shall endevour to find out where and wha it said. I shall let you know when
I know. Oh the scandanavian thing maybe true as all the 6 historic counties
in the north were major Norsk settlements, so that may be true.

Gregg Ashcroft

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From: Dan Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>

Subject: LL-L "Language history" [EN]



Sandy,

You asked: “*Was the 'reet, neet, nowt' imported from Scandinavia or is it
merely phonetic shift?*”



These are English words, and they rather missed out on a phonetic shift than
took part in one. As you well know, the conservative nature of English
spelling preserves the Middle English spirant /x/ that was once found in
these three words: *right* /rixt/, *night* /nixt/, *nought* /noxt/. I’ll add
*eight* /ext/ to this lexical set, too. The phonemic transcriptions I have
given are (roughly) Middle English. At the end of the 13th century, the
clusters /ext/ and /oxt/ developed a diphthong giving /eixt/ and /nouxt/
(hence the spelling!).

South of the Humber (except North-West Midlands) the spirant /x/ was lost in
the course of the 15th century. To retain the weight of the syllable, the
vowel was lengthened (“compensatory lengthening”): *right* /ri:t/,
*night*/ni:t/,
*eight* /ait/, *nought* /naut/. After the Great Vowel Shift we see that the
original long monophthongs have become diphthongs, while the original
diphthongs have become monophthongs: *right* /rəit/, *night* /nəit/,
*eight*/É›:t/,
*nought* /nÉ”:t/ (ca. end of the 16th century). These forms regularly change
to their Modern “Standard” English forms.

In the North-West Midlands the spirant /x/ was preserved much longer, in
some places even as late as the 19th century. Middle English *right* /rixt/
never became */ri:t/ as in Southern English until after the Great Vowel
Shift, when the North repeated the southern change from /rixt/ to present
day /ri:t/, but diphthongisation could no longer happen. The same goes for *
night*, of course. The North also differs in having maintained the Middle
English diphthong in *eight* /ɛɪt/ and *nought* /nɜʊt/, while having
monophthongs in words such as *hate* /e:t/ and *boat* /bo:t/.

These are all regular sound developments of the English vocabulary, in which
Scandinavian words also participated once they were assimilated into the
English language. I don’t think the above examples show Scandinavian
influence.

Dan




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“From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Language history" 2009.07.23 (02) [EN]



Andy wrote about how different Norse influences came to different parts of
the British Isles.



Would I be right in thinking that these ideas are historically motivated or
can the linguistic influences be traced?



I was wondering in particular if the 'reet, neet, nowt' of north east
England can be traced to certain parts of Scandinavia, as opposed to the
'richt, nicht, nocht' of Scotland and presumably other parts of the island
(presuming that the 'gh' of English was at one time pronounced like the 'ch'
of Scots, that is).



Was the 'reet, neet, nowt' imported from Scandinavia or is it merely
phonetic shift?



Sandy Fleming

Http://scotstext.org/ <http://scotstext.org/>”

•

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