LL-L "Grammar" 2009.07.29 (01) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 29 July 2009 - Volume 01
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2009.07.27 (03) [EN]

From: Mike Morgan
<mwmosaka at gmail.com<http://uk.mc264.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mwmosaka@gmail.com>
>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2009.05.28 (02) [EN]
 "...so drunk-EN can only be used in refenrence to sailors
and
hang-ED only in reference to felons"

> ==============================
 The difference seems to me to be a bit more complex than that.  Consider
the Irish song popularised by the Dubliners about 35 years ago, called
"Seven Drunken Nights" (they could only sing 5 of 'em for public
consumption!).  You couldn't have Seven Drunk Nights, and you'd never say
"the night was drunk". Or, indeed, "the night was drunken".

Yet a news report might refer to "trouble with drunken youths in the town
centre", and you could also say "the youths in the town centre were all
drunk", but not "the youths were all drunken".

I struggle to identify any rule here, if there is one!

Paul
Derby
England

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Nice one, Paul!

I have a feeling the key here is identifying nouns of time in this
"exception". Obviously, a night cannot be drunk(en) or happy or even
sleepless, but people can be so during the period of time labeled "night",
and a night can be labeled "hot" or "rainy" or "stormy" because the weather
is so. So there's something going on about nouns denoting time and
adjectives denoting state, as also in cases like "a prosperous new year", "a
busy morning", "an awkward age" and "the roaring Twenties". Rephrased they
are "a night of drunkenness", "a year of prosperity", "an age of
awkwardness", etc.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA
... on a hot morning after a hot, almost sleepness night, expecting 100
degrees Fahrenheit (38 degrees Celsius) today and heading for downtown where
it is going to be even hotter ...

•

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