LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.03 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 03 March 2009 - Volume 03
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From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.02 (01) [D/E]



>From Heather Rendall    heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk



 Roger wrote i.a. in his fascinating exposition on cricket:

* *

*1. Krik* in Belgian dialects (and in Dutch) is a jack (as one uses for
lifting a car or for supporting the tail of a plane against tail-tipping)
cf. the French *cric
*http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cric

Bloch in his dictionnaire étymologique refers to
middle high German: kriek
and middle low German: krich

2. Cricket 1855, mot angl., *peut-être d'origine fr.;* on trouve au
xve s. *criquet
*au sens de "bâton servant de but au jeu de boule



How odd!



In English the small ball thrown out as the target in bowls is called ' the
jack'!



Heather

Worcestershire, UK



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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.02 (04) [E]


I gather Finnish has several identifiable levels of Germanic borrowings:

Most recently, as part of the Swedish Empire, they picked up a lot of
Swedish words;

Older Scandinavian words crept in just by being neighbours;

Mediaeval lowlands words came with the Hansa;

But the most interesting to me are words that are apparently much older, as
they retain proto-Germanic forms.  These may have actually been absorbed on
the southern side of the Baltic, where Finnic languages were later replaced
by Slavic and Germanic ones.  I recall the word for "field" or "acre" being
one such - though I can't remember what it is!



Paul

Derby

England


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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Paul, I think you mean Finnish *pelto*, Karelian *peldo*, Veps *pöud*,
Estonian *põld*; cf. Germanic **felþa-* 'field'. Finnic languages do not
have an inherent /f/.


Also, inherent Finnic structure does not permit initial consonant clusters,
and it tolerates consonant clusters in other positions only if they involve
sonorants as first elements.

For instance Finnish *ranta*, Karelian *ranta*, Veps *rand* 'beach',
'coast', 'shore'; cf. Germanic **strandō* 'beach', 'edge'.

Some other early Germanic loans:

   - Finnish *valta* 'power', 'might'; cf. Germanic **walda-*
   - Finnish, Karelian *rauta*, Estonian, Veps *raud* 'iron'; cf. Germanic *
   *reust(r)a-* 'plow iron'?
   - Finnish *tuomita* 'to judge'; cf. Germanic **dōmjan*?
   - Finnish *keihäs* 'spear'; cf. Germanic **gaiza-*?
   - Finnish *miekka*, Estonian *mõõk* 'sword'; Germanic **mēkjaz*
   - Finnish, Karelian, Estonian *lammas*, Livonian *lāmbas*, Veps
*lambaz*'sheep'; cf. Germanic *
   *lambaz* 'lamb'
   - Finnish *kauppa*, Estonian *kauba-* 'trade', Livonian *kōb-*; cf.
   Germanic **kaupō* 'trading', 'buying'

 There is an interesting couple of articles about early Indo-European
(apparently pre-Germanic) loans in Finnic:

http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/
http://koti.welho.com/jschalin/substitutions.htm

What many people do not realize is that Finnic languages used to be spread
over a much larger area than they are nowadays. For instance, what is now
Western Russia, including St. Petersburg, used to be Finnic-speaking, and t
pockets of Finnic language communities still remain in those areas. So it is
reasonable to assume Finnic substrata in the Slavic and Baltic languages
that now predominate such areas, such as in Western Russian and in certain
Latvian dialects:

   - Ingrian/Izhorian on Russia's shores of the Gulf of Finland and Lake
   Ladoga (barely 300 speakers remaining)
   - Karelian mostly in Russian areas bordering on Finland, some speaker
   communities in Finland
   - Veps in the southeast of Russia's Lake Ladoga
   - Võro and Seto in Estonia, with separate language claims but generally
   considered part of Estonian

 And we are here not talking about the Volga-Finnic languages, which are
used farther east in Russia.

So contacts between Uralic and Indo-European goes back a long, long time.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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