LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.10 (04) [E]

Tue Mar 10 14:41:14 UTC 2009

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L O W L A N D S - L - 10 March 2009 - Volume 04
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From: "Mari Sarv" <mari at haldjas.folklore.ee>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.09 (04) [E]

Tere Rein ja teised sÃµbrad!

Pill ~ spill seems relevant and commonly accepted. Glockenspiel in Estonian
is though translated literally â€™kellamÃ¤ngâ€™.

Toru means no doubt pipe, and kits of course is buck (in addition to skin
there might be a slight resemblance in shape and voice too).

*Loots* (with all your nice theory) might include a typographical error,
recent book about Estonian instruments names it as *lÃµÃµtspill* â€™bellows
instrumentâ€™. Commonly *lÃµÃµts* or *lÃµÃµtspill* means accordion-like
instruments.

*Kotepill *seems to mean â€™bag instrumentâ€™ (from *kott* â€™bagâ€™)

In Estonian tradition there are some nice riddles of torupill (one goose
with two different voices) and

there is a legend which says that torupill has been made by devil (in fact
by our devillike ogre *vanapagan*).

Would it have been told in a lowland language, then it could be the next
story in our anniversary project :)

Mari Sarv

Tartu

Estonia

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Tere, Mari ja teiste sÃµpradega!

Under Music you gave us a link to an interesting page about Estonian
bagpipes (*torupill*):

http://www.users.on.net/~kustas/torupill/<http://www.users.on.net/%7Ekustas/torupill/>

And I mentioned the *torupill* on an earlier occasion.

I am assuming that Estonian *pill* 'musical instrument' was derived from
Middle Saxon (or Early Low Saxon) *spill*, literally 'play'. In Middle Saxon
and Middle German it was not uncommon to use *spill* and *spÃ®l* to denote
'musical instrument', especially in compounds. German *Glockenspiel* is a
lasting example of that.

Now, as for *toru*, I used to think it was a Scandinavian loan
(*stor*'big'), but the article says it comes from Estonian
*toru* 'pipe'.

The article mentions that there are alternative names for the *torupill*: *
kitsepill*, *lootspill*, and *kotepill*. I have a couple of questions about
these.

   - *Kitsepill* is clear to me: from *kitse* 'buckskin' in reference to the
   airbag. I wonder if it is of Indo-European origin.
   - *Lootspill* is really interesting in that the first component appears
   to be *loots*, a Saxon loan (*lootse ~ loots*) for '(ship's) pilot'. Does
   this mean that the *torupill* used to be used by pilots' signaling as
   they entered or left a harbor? Or did people play the pipes on land to guide
   ships in and out of harbors?
   - *Kotepill* I am not sure about, but I wonder if *kote* is related to
   'cottage', 'homestead', which in Modern Estonian is *kodu*, besides
   borrowed *kotedÅ¾* (cf. Finnish *koti*, Veps *kodi*). If there is such a
   link, this is one of my favorite etyma with possible Eurasian spread
   (*"permanent building/settlement" > "city", cf. "hut", cottage, *kota*).

Any ideas?

It might be interesting to add a few etymological notes to the said article.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

----------

From: Mike Morgan <mwmosaka at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2009.03.09 (06) [E]

Actually i BELIEVE (but then I USED to believe in Santa Claus) that the
kote- of Estonian kotepill comes from kott meaning bag, sack.

air sac

Ãµhukott (er linnu kops)

amniotic sac

lootekott

aroint

kasi minema, kÃµtt

back pack

seljakott

backpack

seljakott, ranits

bag of wind

peerukott

bag

kott, jahisaak, vanamoor ; kotti panema

baggy

kottis, lotendav

beach bag

rannakott

beanbag

oakott (mÃ¤nguvahend, iste), oakotipÃ¼stol

bedroll

kokkurullitud madrats, magamiskott

body bag

laibakott

boycott

boikott ; boikoteerima (Ã¤risuhtlemisest keelduma)

bread bag

leivakott

bumper bag

kinnitusribaga kilekott

bundling

aseme jagamine (magamiskottides, eraldi tekiga vms)

bursiform

kottjas

carpetbag

reisikott ; avantÃ¼ristlik

carrier bag

kilekott, paberist kandekott

carryall

suur kott, turukorv

carry-cot

imiku kandekott

Cimmerian darkness

kottpimedus

Cimmerian

kottpime

clutch bag

naiste kÃ¤ekott

Coal Sack

SÃ¶ekott (must udukogu LÃµunaristis)

Coalsack

SÃ¶ekott (must udukogu LÃµunaristis)

curmudgeon

vana kiusukott

dark as pitch

kottpime

debaucher

kiimakott

ditty bag

seljakott (madruse, sÃµduri)

doggie bag

toidukott (restoranis sÃ¶Ã¶mata jÃ¤Ã¤nud pakitud toit)

dust bag

tolmukott

feedbag

torp, (looma) peakott

fleabag

kirbukott (kass, koer)

flour sack

jahukott

foment the injury

(van; valutavale kohale) kuuma kotti tegema

fustilarian

kaabakas, rÃ¤pakott

fustilugs

rÃ¤pakott (paks ja kasimatu)

gill pouch

lÃµpusekott

git

kÃµtt, marss minema

golf bag

golfikott

grain sack

viljakott

grainy club mushroom

kottseen

gripsack

kÃ¤ekott

gunnysack

kott (kartuli, vilja vms)

handbag

kÃ¤ekott

haversack

moonakott

holdall

reisikott

hot-water bag

kuumaveekott

hot-water bottle

kuumaveekott, kuumaveepudel

ice bag

jÃ¤Ã¤kott

knapsack

seljakott

knock off

(otsast) lÃ¶Ã¶ma, maha ajama, (Br) pille kotti panema

mailbag

postikott

mascot

maskott

mesh bag

vÃµrkkott

moneybag

rahakott, kaugas

money-bag

rahakott, kaugas

nosebag

torp, (hobuse) peakott

pitch-black

pigimust, kottpime

pocketbook

rahatasku, kÃ¤ekott, mÃ¤rkmik, taskuformaadis raamat

pocket-book

rahatasku, kÃ¤ekott, taskumÃ¤rkmik ; taskuformaadis

pop goes the weasel

ja jÃ¤lle rahakott haigutab

punching bag

poksikott

purse

rahakott, tengelpung, kÃ¤ekott, auhinnaraha

ragbag

kaltsukott, segapuder

rakeshame

patukott

ratbag

tÃµhukott

reprobate

hukkalÃ¤inud ; hukka mÃµistma ; patukott

rucksack

seljakott

Sacculina

kottvÃ¤hk

sack

kott ; vallandama, rÃ¼Ã¼stama

saddlebag

sadulakott

sandbag

liivakott ; valli ette laduma, tÃµkestama, Ã¤sama

satchel

ranits, (vÃ¤ike) kott, mÃ¤rss

schoolbag

koolikott

scram

jalga laskma, kiiresti sulgema ; kÃµtt

scrotum

munandikott

scumbag

sitakott

seabag

santsukott, meremehekott

sealskin

hÃ¼lgenahk, hÃ¼lgenahast kott

shoo

kÃµtt, kÃµss

shoulder-bag

Ãµlakott

sleeping bag

magamiskott

smellfungus

(Br) Ãµelusekott, toriseja, kibestunud inimene

sock in

(lennuvÃ¤lja) sulgema, kotti panema

spongebag

kosmeetikakott

spore sac

eoskott

stinkard

haisukott

stomach bucket

kÃµhukott (nt kÃ¤nguru)

straw man

hernehirmutis, poksikott, (Ã¤ritehingutes) tankist

termagant

tulehark, kiusukott

tobacco pouch

tubakakott

tool bag

tÃ¶Ã¶riistakott

tote bag

kandekott (hrl pildiga)

tote

kandma, summeerima ; koorem, tervik, kandekott

trash bag

prÃ¼gikott

utter darkness

kottpimedus

valise

reisikott, sÃµduri seljakott

wallet

rahatasku, rahakott

weaselskin

rahakott

wooden shoe

puuking, kott

wretch

Ãµelusekott, Ãµnnetusehunnik

yolk sac

rebukott

from:
http://aare.pri.ee/dictionary.html?query=kott&lang=ee&meth=part&switch=en

U C > || mwm
================
Dr Michael W Morgan
Ishara Foundation || à¤ˆà¤¶à¤¾à¤°à¤¾ à¤«à¥‰à¤‰à¤‚à¤¡à¥‡à¤¶à¤¨  || ã‚¤ã‚·ãƒ£ãƒ©åŸºé‡‘
Mumbai/Bombay *|* à¤®à¥à¤‚à¤¬à¤ˆ *|* ãƒ ãƒ³ãƒã‚¤/ãƒœãƒ³ãƒ™ã‚¤ (ã‚¤ãƒ³ãƒ‰)
www.ishara.org
+++++++++++++++
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks for the info, Mari and Mike, and for squooshing my hypotheses like
the little roaches they were.

To quickly change the subject ... I wrote a couple of issues previously:

My hunch is that the semantic extension of *dudeln* is a bit like that of
'to fiddle' in English: "to play the fiddle" > "to fumble and fidget" -- in
this case "to play the bagpipe" > "to go on and on (with that wretched
sound/activity)" > "to waste time with some slow-going pursuit"

And then there is "to dawdle" ...

Just a reminder that we are once again dealing with the old frequentive
suffix /-l-/ (suggesting successions of "small actions").

"Dawdle" appeared in writing as late as in the late 18th century. It is
believed to be dialectical and a variant of "daddle" (to walk totteringly
and unsteadily, like a small child), perhaps influenced by "daw" (as in the
bird *Corvus monedula*) and its extension "silly fellow, simpleton, noodle,
fool."

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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