LL-L "Idiomatica" 2009.05.02 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 02 May 2009 - Volume 04
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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica"

Beste Ron,

On 02/05/09, at 20:38, Lowlands-L List wrote:

Many Americans eat out all the time. Many do not even know how to cook. (If
they don't eat out they'll heat store-bought frozen dinners in their
microwave ovens.) So eating out casually is similar to eating at home.
That's in a different class from the occasional visit to a fancy restaurant.

When I was working in China, I also had dinner in incredibly small eateries,
every single day, just like many other Chinese. Everything was so small,
that the kitchen was actually inside the dining room, so the atmosphere was
even more than casual (Chinese eating styles can be a bit different from
ours, putting it mildly). Everything was happening within eyesight and no
formality whatsoever. Yet, I never met a waiter or waitress who would ask me
if she could take my plate or bowl away. Not even after I had finished. And
believe me, these places were crowded: jostling business. When a guest has
left the place, that's when you take it away. This is not a matter of being
casual or not, it's a matter of imposing yourself or not.

It's no coincidence that a waiter is called a wait-er. If a waiter can't
wait, he's no waiter in my opinion.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
 Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica"

Beste Karl,
You wrote:

I find it amazing that anybody attempts to analyze an entire culture based
on the fact that "I am still working (say), my salad" means that I have not
finished eating it, but intend to.  Could it be a leftover discussion from
April Fool's Day?  Or maybe a leftover salad?


It's not only the blunt use of the verb "to work" in what should be a
customer-friendly environment (probably many languages know this meaning,
but only use it if they want to describe the mechanical act of processing
food), but also the very fact that a waiter dares to address you this way.
Such behavior makes me think of a restaurant where "Arbeit macht frei" was
written at the entrance.

There's actually more to it than this single phrase. I read it in a fine
article ("Of Loos and Language") that Roger Cohen (New York Times columnist)
wrote a couple of days ago:

http://tinyurl.com/cz6xhz

about differences between British and American English these days. See for
yourself, what else Mr. Cohen writes:

...I was miffed. I was gutted. (Look that up, Richard.)
“Well done, love,” I told my 14-year-old son the other day. “Well done,
love!” he parroted in that scorn-dripping tone teenagers reserve for their
Paleolithic parents, weaving an English patter into his Brooklynese. “You
mean: Good job!”
Quite.
Jobs, the work ethic — no escape from them in the United States, where
finishing a meal in a restaurant prompts the death-penalty-meriting: “Are
you still working on that?” When I took an English test to become a U.S.
citizen a few years back, one of the three sentences in my dictation was: “I
plan to work very hard every day.”
Quite.
America works, every day, its youthful ambition still boundless. England,
having seen everything go pear-shaped, relieved of the burden of running a
ropey world, boozes and says it’s sorry and prefers a lie-in...


Of course, 3 examples is definitely not enough to draw any solid
conclusions, but the fact that within less than 12 hours, 204 comments were
made, may show that Mr. Cohen hit a sensitive spot somewhere.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Idiomatica

Hey, Luc!

As far as I am concerned, the only thing at issue here is that an American
waiter uses an American expression in a different country in which it can be
misconstrued the way I feel you are misconstruing and over-analyzing it. I
also agree that he should not be allowed to ask if people had finished
eating since this is not done in the country in which he works. All this
seems to point to insufficient or absent training on the part of the
management of the restaurant. This is unless that restaurant is supposed to
have an authentic American ambiance, come hell or high water.

Of course you are quite within your rights to apply Belgian standards, or
even general European standards, since all this took place in Belgium,
Europe. Again, this is unless the restaurant is *supposed* to be an American
island, "insults" and all.

However, I don't think you can judge the rest of the world by Belgian,
European or Chinese standards. As I said before, *Andere Länder, andere
Sitten* (Different countries, different customs). During my travels I have
come in contact with some customs I found very, very strange at first, even
very rude or disgusting, and I had to learn not to analyze those by using
the yardstick I brought from home.

Indeed, some Americans hate being rushed in restaurants, and they'll just
say "Yes" if they are asked if they are still "working on it", even if they
are not. Or they give the waiter other signs to tell him or her to leave
them alone. But the vast majority of people don't mind at all. To them it's
like being in a private setting and a friend or family member asking that
question. Your association with Nazi treatment would seem extremely strange
to them. They would ask you, "Gosh! Where did *that* come from?!"

*Andere Länder, andere Sitten*. In this country, wait staff is usually
instructed to keep guests' tables neat at all times, especially if a table
is small and would be cluttered with too many unused dishes on it. Plates
and dishes with cold, leftover food on them are considered unsightly in this
country, which is why waiters are supposed to remove them as soon as their
status is clear. This is so especially if dessert and/or coffee is next. So
you are dealing with a different way of thinking, different esthetic
standards and so forth. Furthermore, the "working on it" phrase is perceived
as casual and non-offensive in most contexts, as I mentioned earlier.

I have been able to visit my native Europe through American eyes, and I
noticed many things that are off-putting to American tourists, things that
most Europeans take for granted, such as widespread snootiness and surliness
of service personnel. None of that comes from ill intent. It is just part
and parcel of customary packages.

Besides, in Chinese eateries waiters snatched my dishes away plenty of
times, *without even asking*. In Croatia and Montenegro I found owners and
waiters in restaurants behaving in very familiar ways, cracking jokes, tying
napkins around my neck, and joining me at my table without even asking, even
when I had company. I accepted that as local custom in that sort of casual
restaurant. I had similar experiences in more casual Turkish and Arabic
eateries. In fact, I happened to like it, certainly preferred it to "servile
creepiness and arrogance" I encountered in many expensive European
retaurants. In the meantime I have accepted that serving does not *have* to
be done in the servile manner that were developed in times of more defined
class consciousness.

Your faithful servant
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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