LL-L "Grammar" 2009.05.28 (01) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 28 May 2009 - Volume 01
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From: heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2009.05.27 (05) [EN]

>From Heather Rendall  heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk

I'm not sure where Michael found his 80 odd examples from.  I have just
googled for 'a half ate sandwich' and no examples appeared.

I found his single 'half ate hamburger'

I did also find a single example for 'broke' as an adjective -n" A broke
filter, engine or gear-box ?" from an american company so, like Paul, I
would put this down as an americanism.

I feel as if I will bring the wrath of linguists round the world down on my
head, if I make the next most logical move - which is to say - perhaps these
people were speaking sloppily and made mistakes! People do , you know!

Instead I will make the more balanced comment which is to say that archaisms
often linger longest in 'new' versions of a language ( american Fall /
gotten) so whereas the half ate / broke adjectives might still be current -
tho' Google would make them appear not very current - in America, they
certainly aren't here in the UK. I did clearly say I was referring to RP
English and the moment I said that rights and wrongs of other variations
were not being taken into account.

Something can be right in RP and wrong in Estuary English e.g. I have done
it  RP I done it EE.  In RP 'th' medially is 'th' (both voiced and
voiceless) in EE it is 'v'  e.e.g bruvver   farver  muver.

There is no one universal English and hasn't been for years but it is still
possible to make judgements and say "In such and such a circumstance for Y
variety of English X would not be correct" and it works both ways for RP
English, EE, Somerset, Sussex, even fading fast here Worcestershire dialect
etc etc etc.

re past participles: some -en endings remain(ed) as adjectives long after
the past participles had lost them. Even -ed endings can be archaic in
pronunciation e.g. beloved can be either 'beloved' or 'belov- ed'. These two
now have separate meanings.

from Heather

who is grrrrrrring just a little
---------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Grammar

Folks,

Watching some news reports this morning I was reminded of a couple of
idiomatic American expressions that, seen from a grammatical
standpoint,seem contradictory.

"*Not hardly*"
as e.g. in "But are the residents prepared for the massive loss of jobs? Not
hardly!"

Technically, the "not" seems to negate the "hardly"; "hardly" alone should
suffice.

"*All ... are not ...*" = "Not all ... are ..."
as e.g. in "All Australians are not royalists," ...

 could be understood as meaning ... where I would say, "Not all Australians
are royalists," because it is "all (Australians)" that is negated, not "are
royalists." Technically, "All Australians are not royalists" could be
understood as meaning "No Australians are royalists."

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

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