LL-L "Language use" 2009.11.06 (07) [EN]

[Lowlands-L List]

===========================================
L O W L A N D S - L - 06 November 2009- Volume 07
lowlands.list at gmail.com - http://lowlands-l.net/
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-08)
Language Codes: lowlands-l.net/codes.php
===========================================

From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L Language use

In the last 3 days the Newspaper "De Standaard" published some articles
about cultually mixed societies.
URLs referred to below are copies from the subscribers only part of De
Standaard. I will keep them only for a few days on my website.

In DS of Nov 6 the story of a Berber family living in Belgian Limburg.
Since the eldest son Ismael (now 9) had a poor level of Dutch at
kindergarten, the family switched to Dutch as home language. but as a result
the younger kids Hajar(7) and Ayoub(5) no longer spreak Berber
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/berber1.pdf
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/berber2.pdf
Now Ismael has to play interpreter when the younger kids communicate with
their grand-mother.

The Turkish community in Northern Belgium has its own policy with Turkish
Lucarna schools, with a strong focus on Dutch. There are quite some comments
though on the quality of the Dutch learned in these rather homogeneous
Turkish schools:
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/tu1.pdf
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/tu2.pdf
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/tu3.pdf
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/tu4.pdf

Other groups rather live in the margin of society, as the Romas (in Ghent)
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/roma1.pdf
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/roma2.pdf
with some follow-up the next day:
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/roma3.pdf right column
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/roma4.pdf
Curious is the large number in the UK (300.000) versus Germany (100.000).
In despite of a though immigration policy, the UK somehow attracts
immigrants.

Foreign presence may be hidden, as it is the case with this western cimetary
in Jeddah:
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/sa1.pdf
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/sa2.pdf

Even many years integration do not squeeze out feelings for one's roots, as
in this case of Russia-Germans:
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/ddr1.pdf
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/ddr2.pdf

Apparely babies learn some basics of the mothers phonology before being
born, French and German newborn babies cry differently:
http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/ll/baby.pdf

All urls are in Dutch. Enjoy reading.
Regards,
Roger

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Thanks for that, dear Roger, which gives us some information about the
changing linguistic landscape of the Belgian part of the Lowlands.

Roma ("Gypsy") data can be way off, mostly because of traditional or
conservative Roma's reluctance to share "internal" information with
non-Roma. There is a tendency toward telling people only one's country of
origin, which I consider fair enough since one's actual ethnicity is really
no one's business if one doesn't care to share it for whatever reason, most
likely for fear of (extra) discrimination. The upshot of it is that people
will assume that someone that says they are from, say, Slovakia is
ethnically Slovak, leave alone the possibilities that they belong to the
Hungarian, Czech, Ruthenian, Roma, German or other minorities. While many
Roma have adopted other languages at home, there are likely many that speak
Romany in their homes and closer circles but won't share that detail with
outsiders.

I am sure that there are several other pitfalls like this. I can think of
the use of the Berber languages. While in Belgium people may be free to
declare one of those languages, in their home countries this is often
associated with inferior status (to Arabic) or with "militancy", and some of
the caution in expressing this may carry over from North Africa to Belgium,
especially if those that speak Berber languages in their homes also rely on
good standing within Arabic-speaking communities. A similar thing can apply
to people that speak Kurdish in their homes (vis-Ã -vis Arabic-, Turkish- and
Farsi-speaking circles to which they may belong as well).

My point is that we need to take such data with a grain of salt.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

•

==============================END===================================

 * Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.

 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.

 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.

 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")

   are to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at

   http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.

*********************************************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20091106/a9660c88/attachment.htm>