LL-L "Language varieties" 2010.12.13 (02) [EN-NDS]

Tue Dec 14 00:08:41 UTC 2010

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L O W L A N D S - L - 13 December 2010 - Volume 02
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From: M.-L. Lessing <marless at gmx.de>

Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2010.12.13 (01) [EN-NDS]

Leve Marcus, ik heff nu de Saak verstahn (denk ik :-)) un graleer to de
prima Ressource, de Du da trechtmaakt hest!

Marlou

 From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>

Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2010.12.12 (01) [EN-NDS]

Perhaps I should give some info on how the site works:

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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>

Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2010.12.13 (01) [EN-NDS]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>

Though I don’t want to come across as nitpicking, I suggest that in the
process of sound shifts you consider the issue of the so-called “dragging
tone” (*Schleifton*, *sleeptoon*). This feature continues in many dialects,
certainly among native speakers, and I would consider it a shame if it fell
by the wayside.

*Söög* (actually *Sœg’* or *Soeg’*) ‘sow’ is a good example. Generally,
dropping of the final *–e* causes an extra-long monophthong or diphthong,
and final devoice cannot apply. In other words, in more conservative
dialects it’s not pronounced [zøːç] or [zœːç] but [zøːˑɣ] or [zœːˑɣ]. This
is also why it is not *Sääch* but *Sääj* in Plautdietsch.

As indicated above, *Söög*  (actually *Sœg’* or *Soeg’*) ‘sow’ has a long
(actually extra-long) monophthong). It is not *Söög* as pronounced *[zœˑɪç]
or *[zɔˑɪç] (the latter of which would be written **Seug* ~ **Seuch* or **
Säug* ~**Säuch*). My point is that all authentic dialects still distinguish
the monophthong-diphthong pairs [øː] ~ [œː] <> [œˑɪ] ~ [ɔˑɪ], and [eː] ~ [ɛː]
<> [ɛ ˑɪ] ~ [aˑɪ]. The founders of the German-based orthography suggested
writing the letters for long monophthongs with an *ogonek* (ę) but this is
typographically inconvenient in the case of *ö*. Therefore, it is more
common to write them *ä(ä)* and *oe* ~ œ*.* However, most people don’t
bother, and this accounts for learners’ mispronunciation. (In a forthcoming
publication I use an under-dot rather than an *ogonek* (since the latter is
associated with nasalization in the orthographies of several other
languages).

This could easily be done by just minimally changing three lines in the
conversion tables of my orthography engine. My conversion engine consists of
two parts, the actual sound shifts and orthography. The distinctions you are
speaking of are present in the sound shift conversion engine (it wouldn't
even work if they weren't), they are only lost in the orthography engine.

However, I have chosen to use Sass as my default orthography (not because I
like it that much, I too have my issues with it, but it's the most
established orthography we have) and the Fehrs-Gilde intentionally dropped
the distinction. Not because they deemed it useless, but because none of the
people who actually wrote in Low Saxon at the time cared to make the
distinction. I will stick with that and I won't throw in yet another
idiosyncratic orthography. (Well, actually, perhaps I _will_ do that at some
time in the future, but if I do so it won't be Sass, but newly designed from
scratch.) But that doesn't mean that there will be no help for learners. I
am planning to include IPA in the entries. My conversion engine is versatile
enough to render entries in "IPA orthography". I have to make some adaptions
and fix some minor issues before IPA can go live, but it's entirely possible
and doable.

Marcus Buck

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Thanks, Marcus. I understand what you are saying. I don’t want to belabor
this much further. However, let me just put it to you that Sass himself
suggested that these orthographic devices be used.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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