LL-L "History" 2010.02.22 (03) [EN]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 22 February 2010 - Volume 03
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From: Joachim <Osnabryg+Lowlands at googlemail.com<Osnabryg%2BLowlands at googlemail.com>
>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2010.02.22 (02) [EN]

Beste Luc,

Am 22.02.2010 ümme 00:02 scraif Luc Hellinckx:

Beste Joachim, You wrote:

Osnabrügge (a place where Widukint is still alive) => Berlin-Pankow


oops, it was a spontaneous addition to my regular footer here, without any
appeal or challenge in favor of historical claims of "the Saxons" or any
revanche for the historical subjection suffered by Charlemagne or
yet against the Frankish culture. Just to state that.

In the discussion with Marcus I argued *against** an overvaluation of the
criterion  "Saxon" vs. "not Saxon" within the Saxon-LowFranconian
(Netherlandish-Low-German) dialect continuum. That said, *I wanted to
underline the *Saxon character of the (East-) Westphalian Plat*, which had
conserved most the Old Saxon language/sound traits even in the Modern Age.
Far more than North Saxon varieties, which' speekers somewhat tend to claim
the "sole agency" for Plat in Germany …

With "a place where Widukind is still alive" I refered to:

1. that in the region of the former *prince-bishopric and Hansestat
 Osnabrügge the figure of the Westphalian nobleman and military leader
Widukind is still remembered; there is to certain degree a popular
awareness of living in an territory which 1000 and more years ago belonged
to the Saxon alleance. Already in elementary school I learnt about the
Saxons, Widukind and the resistance against christianization & annexation
(in the 8th century). The ruins of Widukind's last refuge fort lie on the
territory. And we have there places/streets and schools with his name, and
even an urban quarter "Widukindsland". But might be, that these times has
gone …*

On the other hand, being one of the first (mission) bishopric of C.M. and
the Roman Church on Saxon territory, having the oldest latin school
Carolinum (my highschool) still existing, supposed (or faked) to be founded
by Charlemagne himself, there is also an awareness of the historical and
cultural intercommunion with the Frankish Empire. And we learn that in
school, too. And especially in "Charlemagne's own school", they teach of
course much about the civilizational impact of Charlemagne's rule, Carolus
Magnus had brought the christian light to our heathen ancestors, a
fortiori in catholic religious instruction …

I learnt something today. Apparently, Nazi historians viewed Widukind as a
true German hero, whereas Charlemagne was considered "halbwelsch".


I have not studied much about the forms and the degree of the nazi-racist
ideologic exploitation of the Saxon and Widukind myth, but it had played an
important role, although less because of the nazi leage with fashist Italy
and the self-proclaimed succession of the Roman Empire by the Nazi "Drittes
Reich"…

Not only because the Frankish kingdom was rather France than some part of
Germania Superior, but also because of Charlemagne's romanized habits.
So now I wonder if today, within German society, there are still traces of
Franks, Swabians or Bavarians being viewed as somewhat latin. This would
greatly surprise me.


Me too. I have never experienced that. (Whatever other cut and dried
opinions within the different country and idiom groups exist one to another
within Germany.)

On the other hand, it could partly explain the pretty smooth relations
between Germany and France within a European political context.


Whatever the meaning of "pretty smooth" here is, there is no doubt, that the
axis Bonn (Adenauer)/Berlin-Paris and the German-French relationship is one
of the pilars of the EU.
But I think that has more to do with *economic interests of the respective
national capital groups* than with tradition, history and culture.

 Met echt-westfœlsken »Goutgaun!«
joachim
--
Kreimer-de Fries
Osnabrügge => Berlin-Pankow



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