LL-L "Language varieties" 2010.07.14 (03) [EN-NL]

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 14 July 2010 - Volume 03*
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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>

Subject: LL-L Resources



A poem by Rohaert was translated in 20 European languages before.

This summer the newspaper "Het Belang van Limburg" will publish 44
translations in variants of Belgisch Limburgish.



I scanned the first 13 versions already published, preceeded by 2
introductory notes.

http://www.euro-support.be/tmp/lidia.pdf

2+13=15 pp, about 3.4 Mb.



I think translating poetry is very difficult.

Some issues are discussed in the comment on page 2:

- problem of the lack of dialect wortds for abstract concepts, even also for
ordinary things as "strand" far away from the little Limburgish
municipalities

- the lack of a consistent orthography.



Easy to place in the West versus East is the pronoun for the 2d person
singular:

ge, dzje, zje.... in the West (Brabantish contamination; mixed in the South
with dzj, an East walloon consonnant)

de, du, dich..... in the East (the original form)



Enjoy,
I will continue collecting during this summer.



Regards,

Roger



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From: Hellinckx Luc <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Language varieties"



Beste Roger,



You wrote:



One more difference between Belgian Dutch and Dutch from the Netherlands.

The "van...tot..." (from...till...) issue.

I f you have to pay for parking from Monday till Saturday,

is the Saturday included or not?

In Belgian Dutch apparently Yes

In Northern Dutch apparently No.



Then again, it seems I'm inclined to follow the Dutch in this respect. What
would be the use of having an expression like "tot en met" if it would
semantically be equivalent to "tot"?



Sure, in spoken Dutch, few native speakers would have doubts about the
meaning of a sentence like:



"Ik ga vanaf nu tot (in) de winter elke dag naar het journaal kijken"  ==>
"de winter" = included

"Ik ga vanaf nu tot volgend jaar elke dag naar het journaal kijken" ==>
"volgend jaar" = not included



Personally I find this fairly obvious (I'm not saying it's logical)...mainly
because in spoken Dutch, one rarely uses "tot en met". I've never heard
anybody say:



"Ik ga vanaf nu tot en met de winter elke dag naar het journaal kijken"



But in written (administrative) Dutch, one should avoid to be ambiguous at
all costs. That's precisely the reason, why "tot en met", in opposition to
merely "tot", has its use. So yes, for me the Dutch are right...we do have
to comfort them a little after the cup finals, isn't it ;=)



In Western Flemish, one can hear "Ik moet dat tot volgende week af
hebben"...which then means "Ik moet dat tegen volgende week af hebben".



Kind greetings,



Luc Hellinckx, Halle, Belgium



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