LL-L "Etymology" 2010.03.18 (04) [DE-EN-NDS]

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 18 March 2010 - Volume 04*
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From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2010.03.17 (09) [EN]

From: Jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>

Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2010.03.16 (05) [EN]

  Beste Marcus,

you wrote:

*Until a few moments ago I was convinced that "schap/schop/schup" is Saxon
and "schaft" is a German loan. I wanted to add that some Low Saxon dialects
have completely incorporated the loan "schaft" and don't even know
"schap/schop/schup" anymore.

But then I looked into my etymological dictionary (to look up whether
"schap, "schop" or "schup" is the original form [it's "schap"]) and
discovered that "schaft" is actually _both_ Low Saxon _and_ German and no
loan. "schaft" is derived from "schap" + "ti" suffix and "schapti" developed
into "schaft" cause the sound pattern "pt" is phonotactically avoided (this
is independant of the High German sound shift "p" to "f" as in "schâp" ->
"schâf"). Old English had "sceaft" (besides unsuffixed "scipe" which
developed into modern "ship"). *

*So "börgerschaft" is not necessarily a loan.*
 Interesting, and sounds conclusive! Have you just read it as an
theory or found it written or even heard spoken? I've never come across this
form, neither in old (Middle Age) documents nor in modern, till spoken Low
Saxon languages. Maybe it's very archaic!?

  The old forms are mentioned in my etymological dictionary but without any
direct sources. The given example is "hugiskaft" which is from the Heliand
and means "Gemüt", "Sinn" ("hugi" being the source of our modern "Höög",
"högen"). The modern form is in widespread use. If you search
<http://wikisource.org/> <http://wikisource.org/> for forms like
"Weertschaft", "Wirtschaft", "Landwirtschaft", you'll find examples (e.g.
Fritz Reuter, Johann Hinrich Fehrs, Fritz Stavenhagen, Wilhelm Henze). I
don't know how much of these modern forms is loan and how much is
patrimonial.

Marcus Buck

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From: Hannelore Hinz  HanneHinz at t-online.de
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2010.03.17 (09) [EN]

Hallo alltohopen,

ick help giern bäten nah....

Der Bürger, die Bürgerschaft,
de Börger, de Börgerschaft, Börgerschop

Wortbildung Substantiv: (Substantiv + Substantiv) Das grammatische
Geschlecht des Grundwortes legt das Geschlecht des ganzen zusammengesetzten
Substantivs fest (z.B. die Haus*tür).*
**
*Börgerbreif m., -buk n., -gehursam, -geld, -kawel f.*

Börgerbreif m., -buk n., -gehursam, -geld, -kawel f. , -klock f. (Glocke,
die im Mittelalter in den Städten den Feierabend im Wirtshaus gebot),
-schuss m., -sprake f. (Bürgersprache, öffentliche Verlesung der
Bürgerpflichten und städtischen Vorschriften im Mittelalter), -stig m., -tit
f., -utschott m.

In "Verfatung von dat Land Mäkelborg-Vörpommern" heit "Wissenschaft" :
Wätenschop.
also analog Börgerschop.

Ja, mi dücht,  'schop'  (Mittelalter).

Noch wat: *schaffen*:  schöpferisch  gestaltend;
*... schaft: *In der Ableitungssilbe mhd. -schaft, ahd. -scaf[t] sind zwei
ehemals selbständige Substantive zusammengeflossen, die in den germ.
Sprachen schon früh in Zusammensetzungen auftreten und wie* Suffixe
gebraucht werden.
Aus der Bed. "Zustand, Beschaffenheit, Verhalten" in abstrakten Substantiven
wie  ahd. friuntscaf, botascaft "Freund-, Botschaft" entwickelte sich in
Wörtern wie 'Bruder-, Ritter-, Gemeinschaft' bald ein kollektiver Sinn, der
auch räumlich gefaßt wurde ('Land-, Grafschaft'). Erst nhd. sind Ableitungen
von Verbformen wie 'Bekannt-, Gefangen-, Leidenschaft'.

*Schaft: *Das altgerm. Sustantiv  mhd. schaft ahd. scaft .... bezeichnete
ursprünglich den Speerschaft, auch den Speer als Ganzes.

* mien Mein: kein echt' Suffix

Lit.:  DUDEN 7 Herkunftswörterbuch, Wossidlo/Teuchert

In Fründschop  [ auch Fründschaft, a. Spr. -schop: 'wy ... scolen in ener
ganzen eninghe
unde vruntscop myd en ... sitten'  (Ro 1366) ]

Hanne

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