LL-L "Language learning" 2010.09.16 (02) [AF-EN]

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*L O W L A N D S - L - 16 September 2010 - Volume 02
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From: Mike Morgan <mwmbombay at gmail.com>

Subject: LL-L "Language learning" 2010.09.16 (01) [EN]



Paul wrote:

I Finland a girl was being mildly mocking about the fact that she could
speak English but I knew no Finnish ("English people really struggle with
languages don't you?").



On the other hand, when I was first in the Netherlands some 25 years ago and
learning Dutch, many Amsterdam acquaintances' response was: "Why bother? We
all speak English..."

Though, of course, they didn't....

That same response is not uncommon in many countries ... and sometimes as a
field linguist who enjoys learning languages as well, it CAN be
frustrating....

...

>From my current, temporary location back in Japan, it seems that the
"ineptitude" at learning languages that seems to charcterize this country
and the country of my birth is by and large nurture not nature; in America
people by and large are not interested in foreign languages (because we are
"taught" "who needs them?! everyone speaks -- or ought to speak! --
American"), while in Japan much more complicated socio-educational issues
seem to be at play (including the thinking that if you CAN learn a foreign
language then you MUST not be really be Japanese -- or maybe suffer from a
brain defect or gene mutation --, because Japanese brains are actually put
together differently than those of foreigners).

As Sandy said in a posting a few days ago, learning a language is NOT all
about how difficult it is, but rather maybe more about interest and
motivation (though in that context the discussion was about choice of
PARTICULAR languages), and it would also seem that there is an important
element as to whether the society (and therfore the person socialized in
that society) "feels" that learning languageS / being bilingual is
"normal"/"to be expected".

Deaf Japanese are always astonished when it is pointed out to them that the
"average educated" European Deaf person (Finnish say, or Belgian) is
competent in at least 4 languages (Finnish Sign Language, International Sign
and/or some other country's sign language, written Finnish, AND written
English. Not because they MUST (nobody I know of forces Finnish Deaf to
travel abroad), but because it is just "the way things are done". NOT
knowing English doesn't keep Japanese (hearing or Deaf) from traveling
overseas; on the other hand, it seems that the "normalcy" of traveling
overseas (or at least over the Baltic Sea) makes learning English natural
fro Scandinavians (and one expects the same "thinking" applies to most north
Europeans -- south Europeans being maybe a bit more like Americans and
Japanese ... and British)


     mwm || U C > || Mike Morgan
===============================
      linguist temporarily at large
soon(?) @ IGNOU-UCLan New Delhi, India
 ... sometime in THIS incarnation anyway
           ... inshallah



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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>

Subject: LL-L "Language learning" 2010.09.16 (01) [EN]



Dear Paul:



Subject: LL-L "Language learning"



You Wrote:

All very good points, especially about the perceived "special language
ability" of other countries. That idea even exists in those countries
sometimes: I Finland a girl was being mildly mocking about the fact that she
could speak English but I knew no Finnish ("English people really struggle
with languages don't you?"). I answered her in Afrikaans. The realisation
was like watching a lightbulb go on.



Seconded. Good for you, & your Afrikaans! So van die os op die esel, het jy
nie al opgemerk nie hoe die Taal lig werp op veral die oudhede van Engels
(onder ander Dietse tale)? My ondervinding as 'n kind was hoe help Afrikaans
met die spel van Engels, waar die uitspraak van die hedendaagse taal geen
luidraad gee, hoegenaamd. Ek veronderstel natuurlik 'n mate van die einste
voordeel van sommer enige verwante taal in parallel met die wat jy klaar
onder die blad het, maar Afrikaans... dra die eienskap tot 'n merkwaardige
mate.



Ek sê nie Afrikaans moet 'n Wêreldwye gemenetaal word nie, en ek wil dit ook
nie hê nie, maar mynsinsiens is dit 'n uitstekende tweede-taal fondament van
'n derde, vierde, en nog meer. Maar, met wederdenke, is nie alle tallleer so
nie?



Nou ja, vir die enkeltaliges in ons geselskap (die skraaaale minderheid)
laat ek in Engels oortolk.



Gesekondeer. Mooi skoot, u en u Afrikaans! Off the ox onto the ass as it
were, have you not noticed how the Taal casts light on particularly the
archaisms of English (among other Anglo-Saxon languages)? My experience as a
child was how Afrikaans helped me with the spelling of English, where the
pronunciation of the language as it is today gives no clue whatever. I
assume naturally a degree of the same advantage with really any related
tongue in parallel with one you already have by heart, but Afrikaans...
carries this quality to a notable degree.



I do not say that Afrikaans should become a Worldwide common language, nor
would I want that, but in my opinion it is an outstanding second-language
foundation for a third, fourth, even more. However on thinking it over isn't
that the case with all language study?



While we're off the subject, when are you denizens of the sceptered
archipelago, that other Eden, that demi-paradise, going to point out to
smarmy foreigners that yours is not a monoglot heritage? Count with me,
English, Scots, Welsh, Gaelic, Erse, Manx (still, I hope), Cornish (I
anticipate), Norman-French (of the Channel Isles), Norn (does it still
exist?), Romany & how much more?



Groete,

Mark.



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