LL-L "Literature" 2011.08.03 (08) [DE-EN]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 03 August 2011 - Volume 08
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From: Marcus Buck list at marcusbuck.org
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2011.08.03 (07) [EN]

From: Mike Morgan mwmbombay at gmail.com

         Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2011.08.03 (04) [EN]

Marcus writes:


       Sounds very interesting. A bit _too_ interesting. ...
>
>  To me the only plausible explanation is that a written account of the
> Western version of the Nibelungs was translated into Russian and it entered
> Chuvash oral tradition when a Chuvash told the story he had read in a book
> to his fellow Chuvashs.
> ...
> And I also find it odd that if they discovered the connection in 1992, why
> is a 2011 book the first time this is covered? I tried to google some of the
> keywords and it's all related to the book now published.
>
>          Well, scepticism is healthy (although not always encouraged)...

However, if you go to the site:

http://chuvash.org/e/d090d0b2d0b0d0bbd0bbc483d18520d187d0b0d0bdc4952028d090d182d182d0b8d0bbd0bfd0b020d09ad180d0b8d0bcd0bad0b8d0bbd182d0b529

(having first brushed up your Chuvash if it is, like mine, a bit rusty and
never quite as good as my Uyghur and Kazakh) you will see a bit of the
background to the story of the collection and publication of the *Аттилпа
Кримкилте epos*

Seems in fact it was first published in 1913, which in my mind makes it
unlikely that it is a Chuvash translation/interpretation of a Russian
published translation of a German tale... but NOT unreasonable that the tale
had migrated one way or the otehr over the centruries. And, considering
where Attila came from (Pritsak, Omeljan. 1982 "The Hunnic Language of the
Attila Clan." *Har**vard Ukrainian Studies*, vol. 6, pp. 428-476 considers
the name to be from (Turkic) Bolgar, which is in fact the ancestor (or one
of them) of Chuvash), it seems just as likely to me that it migrated west as
that it migrated east.

And, the text of the epos itself is available (or parts of it) at the same
site (the main index with links to the first is at:

http://chuvash.org/e/d090d182d182d0b8d0bbd0bfd0b020d09ad180d0b8d0bcd0bad0b8d0bbd182d0b5

But according to Wikipedia
<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriemhild><http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kriemhild>Kriemhild
is a Germanic name. The real name of Attila's wife was Ildikó.
That indicates that the Chuvash got it from a Germanic source. I'm indeed
sceptical, but as I do not speak a single word Chuvash, I won't be of much
use solving the case of how the epos got to Chuvashia.

Marcus Buck

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Literature

OK, Marcus. I agree that this matter requires skepticism, but it also
requires an open mind.

Kriem*hild* <> *Hild*iko (> Ildikó) ?

Wikipedia:
Der Name ist zusammengesetzt aus zwei
althochdeutschen<http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Althochdeutsche_Sprache>Bestandteilen:
ahd.
*grim* = Maske, Verkleidung und ahd. *hilt(j)a* = Held, Recke, Kämpe,
Kämpfer. Der Name *Kriemhild* bedeutet folglich wörtlich übersetzt:
*verkleideter
Held*.

"Disguised/masked hero"? Why such a name for a woman?

Going out on a limb for the heck of it ... The Huns, like the Goths and
others, at one time inhabited the Crimean Peninsula (Крим* (**Krym)*).
Besides from Crimean Turkic ("Crimean Tatar") *qrım* 'rock', the name is
suspected to be derived from Mongolic and Turkic *kerim* 'fortress'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA

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