LL-L "Phonology" 2012.02.16 (01) [DE-EN-FY-NDS-NL]
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L O W L A N D S - L - 16 February 2012 - Volume 01
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2012.02.15 (01) [EN]
Is there an IE source, or does this look like one of those "Folkish" non-IE
Germanic words?
Paul
Derby
England
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <roerd096 at PLANET.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2012.02.15 (01) [EN]
Hi Ron and the rest,
I was already getting a bit worried because of the silence here the last
week...
I don't know whether the change from -g into -ow has something (or
everything) to do with rounding by preceding l, because Mod. English has
this change also before r in words like tomorrow, sorrow.
My own thought has been that this has to do with rounding, but by the
vowel, so folgen, sorgen become, folleghe, sorreghe become folloghe,
sorroghe become followe, sorrowe.
And that in cases like willow, fellow, there was a parallell development
from words like follow.
One would rather expect something like willey, taking into account that Old
English -g must have been a palatal sound, as in bury. In Scandinavian
final -rg is pronounced -rj if I remember right.
maybe it became 'hard' again when it got a back vowel before it, willegh
=> willogh => willow.
It's also possible that there was first a different non palatal vowel
involved, for instance A, Ö developped from schwa ë, follëg => follag =>
follaw or follëg => follöw => follow.
Ingmar
From: R. F. Hahn <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Phonology
Dear Lowlanders,
I wonder if you would join me in revisiting the Lowlands Germanic word
group represented by English "willow" (genus Salix), in part to examine
more data regarding metathesis.
Salix
Old English: welig
Modern English: willow
Old Saxon: wilgia
Modern Low Saxon: Wichel
Middle Dutch: wilghe
Modern Dutch: wilg
Frisian (West): wylch
Frisian (East, Sater): Wüülg(e)-
Proto-Germanic: *walg-
(This is distinct from the semantically identical word group represented
for instance by Scots widdy, Limburgish wiej, and German Weide.)
Two observations:
The English forms show a shift from -lig to -low. The same shift can be
observed in "bellow" and "fellow." At least at some point in time, Old
English realized syllable-final -g as a fricative (probably as [ɣ]. This,
in conjunction with preceding /l/, most probably lowered and rounded the
vowel [ɪ] to [ɔ]. (The shift from fricativized -g to -w is not at all
uncommon among the world's languages; e.g. Turkic taɣ > taw > tow
'mountain').
The Saxon language must have developed the following forms ...
*wilge [ˈwɪɫɣə] >
*wilg [wɪɫɣ] (final devoicing/hardening) >
*wilg [wɪɫç] (final vowel deletion) >
*wileg [ˈwɪɫəç] (vowel insertion) >
Wichel [ˈwɪçeɫ] (metathesis)
Are there any alternative proposals?
Thanks and regards!
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA
----------
From: Joachim <Osnabryg+Lowlands at googlemail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2012.02.15 (01) [EN]
Am 16.02.2012 um 01:59 schrieb R. F. Hahn:
Modern Low Saxon: *Wichel*
1. The Saxon language must have developed the following forms ...
**wilge *[ˈwɪɫɣə] >
**wilg *[wɪɫɣ] (final devoicing/hardening) >
**wilg *[wɪɫç] (final vowel deletion) >
**wileg *[ˈwɪɫəç] (vowel insertion) >
*Wichel *[ˈwɪçeɫ] (metathesis)
Are there any alternative proposals?
Bester Reinhard,
nein, keine Alternative zu deiner deskundigen Betrachtung
eines interessanten Germanischen Wortstammes, nur eine kleine Ergänzung zur
niederdeutschländischen Entwicklung :
*Wichel [1]* ist schon *mittelniederdeutsche* Form in Norddeutschland,
siehe Lübben, Mnd. Hand-WB:
wichele, sw. f. aus und = wilge; Zss. wichel-bôm.
Hingegen Mittelniederländisch noch ohne Metathesis: *wilghe*
Etymologisch Woordenboek van het Nederlands [A-R >
http://tinyurl.com/733zdgx
Mnl. *wilghe* in *na die sede dat men wilghen poten plegt* ‘op de manier
waarop men wilgen pleegt te planten’ [1287; VMNW]; vnnl. *wilghe*, *willighe
* [1599; Kil.], nnl. *wilg*.
Os. *wilgia* (mnd. *wilge*); mhd. *wilge*; ofri. *wilig* (nfri. *wylch*);
oe. *welig* (me. *wilwe*, *welew*, ne. *willow*); alle ‘wilg’, < pgm. *
*wil(i)giōn-*.
Men kan pie. **uelVk-* (*V* = klinker) reconstrueren. Mogelijk is Grieks *
helíkē* ‘kraakwilg’ verwant, maar dit woord kan ook een
betekenisuitbreiding zijn van *helíkē* ‘kronkeling’, dat is afgeleid van *
héliks* ‘kronkeling’.
----------
FN:
[1] Lustig hier (in Lübben] die Nähe zu:
*wichelen,* zaubern, hexen, beschwören, wahrsagen.
*wicheler,* Zauberer, Wahrsager; wichgelersche, f.
*wichelie* (wichgelie) u. wichelinge, Zauberei, abergläubischer Brauch,
Wahrsagerei, observatio auspiciorum, supersticio;
*wichgelie-bôk.* Zauberbuch.
-------------
Met echt-westfœlsken »Goutgaun!«
joachim
--
Kreimer-de Fries
Osnabrügge => Berlin-Pankow
----------
From: Joachim <Osnabryg+Lowlands at googlemail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2012.02.15 (01) [EN]
Am 16.02.2012 um 12:32 schrieb ich, Joachim:
Lübben, Mnd. Hand-WB:
wichele, sw. f. aus und = wilge; Zss. wichel-bôm.
Hingegen Mittelniederländisch noch ohne Metathesis: *wilghe*
Der Vollständigkeit halber noch:
Auch im norddeutschen Mittelniederdeutsch gab es die Form ohne Methathesis:
Quelle: Schiller-Lübben
Schiller, Karl: Mittelniederdeutsches Wörterbuch / von Karl Schiller und
August Lübben. - Bremen : Kühtmann [u.a.].
Erschienen: 1 (1875) - 6 (1881) > http://tinyurl.com/8y6soj6
Met echt-westfœlsken »Goutgaun!«
joachim
--
Kreimer-de Fries
Osnabrügge => Berlin-Pankow
----------
From: Annegret Schmieder anne.schmieder at hotmail.de
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2012.02.15 (01) [EN]
Dear Lowlanders,
Here the North Frisian word for "Salix", in Mooring,( Fååstewalfrash) of
Bökinghiird:
Jüker or wiichel
Deer äädere stoont en üüljen jükrebuum/en üülj wiichel.
Over there stands an old willow.
Wanlike gröötnise ût Nordfrashlönj
Anne
----------
From: Hannelore Hinz hannehinz at t-online.de
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2012.02.15 (01) [EN]
From: R.F. Hahn
Subject: Phonology
Hallo Ron un all' Lowlanners,
ick heff mi freut, mal wedder wat von LL-L tau hüren. Vörweg mücht ick woll
seggen, wi snacken *Wichel *odder *Wid *so, as dat schräben/schräwen is.
Liekers noch Lit.: Perfesser Voßlo.
*Wiechel, *Wichel (*i *kurz), Wigel, Pl. -*n *(-*n *stumm), gekürzt *
Wiechen*:
f. Weide, Weidenbaum, salix:: 'virgulta salicum, videlicet wichelen'
(1356); *ne dick Wichel; *Pl.: *Wo drömig-still dei Wiechel stahn.
*FN.: *Wiechelbreid', -dik, -fuurt, -koppel, -kul, -slagg, -soll, -wisch;
Wiechelndik, -uurt; Wigelsoll; Wigelbrack, -soll. *
Zs. *Snurwiechel. - *Mnd. *wîchele
**Wiechelbast, **Widenbast, *Rda.: *wat is 't för Not för Strümpelband,
Wichelbasten pellt jo noch.*
*Wichelbom *m. wie *Widenbom
**Wichelbusch *m. wie *Widenbusch
**Widenfläut:* *dei Kinner ihr Gepiep, Up frische Wiechelfläuten.
**Kroppwid'*, auch Kröppwid' f. Kopfweide, die 'gekröpfte' weiße oder
Silberweide, salix alba, auch die Bruchweide, salix fragilis (sonst *
Sprockwid'*). Syn. *Koppwid', Kroppwiechel.
**Basterjahn*, Bastel-, Basten- , assimiliert Bassen-, ferner Basche(n),
mit Anlautverhärtung Paster-m. umgebildet aus *Sebastian*, d.i. der
christliche Märtyrer Fabian Sebastian, der von 236 bis 250 Bischof von Rom
war und nach dem 20. Februar benannt ist;* ihn ruft im Frühjahr die Jugend
in ihren Bastlösereimen an*, bei der Anfertigung der Weidenflöten zum
Abklopfen der Rinde seit altersher im ganzen Lande gesungen werden.
*Hupp hupp hupp hupp Basterjahn, Lat de Widenfläut afgahn, Lat s' ok nich
verdarben, Lat s' ok jo gaut warden *(allgemein); oder
*Pipen, Papen, Pasterjahn, Lat de widen Fläut afgahn, Lat s' ok nich
verdarben, Lat s' recht lustig warden; *odder *Hubbub, Hubbub, Basteljahn,
Lat de Fideln un Fläuten gahn, Lat de Annern ehr verdarben;
*dat giwwt noch väl mihr Riemels von disse Oort.
Un wat mi jüst so inföllt, männig Leederbauk näumt sick *Lat't Fideln un
Fläuten gahn.*
(Dit is man blot nelütte Kost'prauw'.)
*OEWER DAT JOHR HEN
*Stahn oll Wieden an den Weg,
- kröppt sünd sei un kahl, -
föllt de Snei up ehre Wunn'n,
leggt sik sachting dal.
Stahn oll Wieden in den Wind,
- Lewark flüggt up Sprei, -
hebben Kräns' von Bläder up,
gräunen in ne Reih.
Stahn oll Wieden in de Sünn,
- Irdbeer wasst un Kruut, -
baben in de boewelst Raud
zirrt de Gäälgaus luud.
Stahn oll Wieden in de Hitt,
- Fauder swunkt un Kuurn, -
haken Ohr'n in't Bläderwark,
häng'n dor heil verluurn.
Stahn oll Wieden in den Storm,
- Vagel treckt un Wulk, -
bruun un naakt, as Swääp an Swääp,
suust ehr Telgenbulk.
Stahn oll Wieden in de Küll,
- Buer röögt de Händ', -
sorgt de Aext för Korw un Pietsch,
geiht dat Johr tau End . . .
*Gerda Uhthoff 2.8.1896 - 21.10.1988
(Läwte in Swerin, wenn wi uns in de Stadt oewer 'n Weg lopen sünd, hebben
wi ümmer bäten vertellt.)
*Ick bün gaud oewer den'n Winter kamen...
Hartlich.
Hanne
----------
From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology
Thanks to everyone for the interesting responses.
Wäljkiimen bai Lowlands-L, Anne! Folks, meet our new member Annegret
Schmieder from Northern Friesland! Now we have an Anne in addition to a
Hanne.
I suspect that *wiichel* is a Low Saxon (Low German) loanword. Would you
agree, Anne?
Joachim:
[1] Lustig hier (in Lübben] die Nähe zu:
*wichelen,* zaubern, hexen, beschwören, wahrsagen.
*wicheler,* Zauberer, Wahrsager; wichgelersche, f.
*wichelie* (wichgelie) u. wichelinge, Zauberei, abergläubischer Brauch,
Wahrsagerei, observatio auspiciorum, supersticio;
*wichgelie-bôk.* Zauberbuch.
These are all divining and sorcery references based on "willow." Most
people know that willow twigs used to be or still are used as dowsing rods
("water witching"). I wonder if the willow had or has other uses in
witchcraft. If you respond specifically to this aspect, please do so under
"Tradition".)
Besides *wid* and *widdie *(cf, German *Weide*), Scots has the word *sauch *for
"willow". Clearly this is related to Old English sealh and is related to
Latin *salix*. This turned into *sallow* in Modern English, while the Scots
counterpart has preserved the final fricative: [sɑ:x] ~ [sɔ:x].
Compare Romance:
Castilian: sauce
Catalan: salze
French: saule
Galician: salgueiro
Italian: salice
Portuguese: salgueiro
Romanian: salcie
Compare Celtic:
Irish: saileach
Manx: shellagh
Welsh: helyg (< *selyg)
So I am inclined to assume that "sallow", *sauch* and *selh* go back to
Celtic loans.
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA
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