LL-L "Language varieties" 2012.07.27 (02) [EN]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 27 July 2012 - Volume 02
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <roerd096 at PLANET.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2012.07.27 (01) [EN]

Interesting, but strange that this article thinks the language of Wilamow
to be Dutch/Flemish, since it's so obviously German...
The only real Dutch in Germany is the Kleverländisch, but that is spoken in
the border region between the Netherlands and Germany, in both countries.
A few examples (from the German Wikipedia):

„Ek heb noch efkes afgewaachd, ob dat, wach’e min seggen wold.“
„Ich habe noch kurz abgewartet, was Du mir sagen wolltest.“
(Ndl.) „Ik heb nog even gewacht op wat je me zeggen wou.“
„En den Wenter stüwe di drööge Bläär dörr de locht eröm“ (Georg Wenker Satz
1)
„Im Winter fliegen die trockenen Blätter in der Luft herum.“
(Ndl.) „In de winter stoven de droge bladeren door de lucht.“
„Et sall soon üttschaije te shnejje, dann werd et wäär wer bäter.“ (Wenker
Satz 2)
„Es hört gleich auf zu schneien, dann wird das Wetter wieder besser.“
(Ndl.) „Het zal zo ophouden met sneeuwen, dan wordt het weer weer beter.“
„Hej es vörr vier of säss wääke gestörwe.“ (Wenker Satz 5)
„Er ist vor vier oder sechs Wochen gestorben.“
(Ndl.) „Hij is vier of zes weken geleden gestorven“
„Het füür was te hätt, die kuuke sinn ja an de onderkant heel schwaort
angeschröt.“ (Wenker Satz 6)
„Das Feuer war zu heiß, die Kuchen sind ja unten ganz schwarz gebrannt.“
(Ndl.) „Het vuur was te heet, de koeken zijn aan de onderkant helemaal
zwart aangebrand.“
„Hej dütt die eikes ömmer sonder salt än pääper ääte.“ (Wenker Satz 7)
„Er isst die Eier immer ohne Salz und Pfeffer.“
(Ndl.) „Hij eet de eitjes altijd zonder zout en peper.“

Ingmar Roerdinkholder

From: Roger Thijs [log in to unmask]
> Subject: LL-L Language survival
>
> De Standaard of today has an article over 2 pages about what people think
> is a Dutch language island in Polen.
> To me the language rather looks like an archaic "early" middle-German.
>
> An outprint of the 2 pages is attached.
>
> Regards,
> Roger
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Language varieties
>
> Thanks, Roger!
>
> Vilamovian is clearly a (High) German dialect and shares characteristics
> with other Silesian German dialects.
>
> For example, Appel (instead of Standard German Apfel 'apple') is common in
> Central German varieties (including Yiddish).
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
> Seattle, USA
>

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Thanks, Ingmar!

I share your wonderment over why they would consider the German variety of
Wilamow a type of Dutch. My guess is that it's simply  case of ignorance.
("Oh, look! They say *appel* like we do in Dutch, and that in Poland!")

Of course, Wilamow is not in Germany but in a formerly German-controlled
part of what is now Poland. And here is where ignorance may come into it
too. ("Oh, look! They speak like that in *Poland*!" *Lots *of German and
Low Saxon varieties are or used to be used in what is now Poland, and many,
if not most of them, say *Appel*.)

I'm not totally sure I agree that Cleves Low Frankish (Low Franconian) is a
dialect of Dutch. At least within our Anniversary
presentation<http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary>I let it be its own
group (
http://owlands-l.net/anniversary/kleverlands-info.php), with member
varieties on both sides of the NL-DE border:


   - .lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-venlo.php
   - http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-mulheim.php
   - http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-mulheim-saarn.php
   - http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/limburgs-berjisch.php
   - http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/kuuks.php
   - http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/liemers.php


What do you think?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
Seattle, USA
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