LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.07 (01) [EN-SC]

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 07 October 2012 - Volume 01
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From: Mike Morgan mwmbombay at gmail.com <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.05 (02) [EN-SC]

R/R wrote:
"I suggest we use this label for Western "haiku" to avoid unwarranted
expectations. 西洋の俳句 (*seiyō no haiku* "Western haiku") might be even more
appropriate"

西洋俳句 *seiyō haiku* for short... although maybe 国際俳句* kokusai
haiku*"international haiku" might be more appropriate, as NOT ALL
non-Japanese
haiku is written in the West, nor by westerners.

post monsoon sun rays
force their way through closed eyelids
oh, for cloudy morns!

5-7-5, with reference to season and "cutting word" ;-)

mwm || *U*C> || mike || माईक || мика || マイク (aka Dr Michael W Morgan)
sign language linguist / linguistic typologist
academic adviser, Nepal Sign Language Training and Research
NDFN, Kathmandu, Nepal <http://scotstext.org/>

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From: Sandy Fleming sandy at scotstext.org
Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2012.10.05 (02) [EN-SC]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Literature
>
> Personally, I don't thinks this is a case of pedantry and purism on my
> part. When I hear *"haiku*" (俳句) and *"senryū*" (川柳) I have certain
> expectations.
>
> Fortunately, modern Japanese poets (who have been exposed to Western
> poetry) have been wrestling with similar issues and have eventually come up
> with a label for a new, freer-style derivative of  *haiku* and *senryū*:
> 現代の俳句 *gendai no haiku *(literally "contemporary/modern haiku"). I
> suggest we use this label for Western "haiku" to avoid unwarranted
> expectations. 西洋の俳句 (*seiyō no haiku* "Western haiku") might be even more
> appropriate.
>
> Yes, the extent to which you would want to correct someone on the matter
would depend on the poet's intent and their success in carrying it out.

Similar things happen in the historical development of western poetry: from
sonnets, through non-rhyming sonnets, to poems of 14 lines being called
sonnets, to anything being called a sonnet if the poet thinks they've
captured the essence of a sonnet! But reading over the previous sentence I
notice that it's only the first kind that I naturally call a sonnet without
further qualification.

It still leaves the question of whether someone like Bashō followed these
conventions, or lived up to these expectations. If you take his first four
in this compilation, for example:

C’awa lat’s see
aw the rael flouers
o this dulefu warld!

The fishmongir’s staw---
hou cauld the deid lips
o the sautit bream.

The lairk lilts abuin
aw day an the haill day
is no lang aneuch.

Back at the lair ---
Ah bend ma sabbin
til the Back End wund!

it seems to me that there's no obvious indication of season until we get to
the fourth, and this seems par for the course for me with Bashō.

The seasonal potential in Scots is interesting: here, "Back End" is used
for autumn, which is rather negative, while you could also use "Hairst"
(harvest), which is (in most years, hopefully) positive.

What you're saying about the party game aspect is interesting, though. As
if the whole phenomenon has gone through stages from development by the
masters through codification for players to freeing for the modern masters.
But the idea of a sharp distinction between haiku and senryū still seems
somewhat artificial to me (feel free to enlighten me, of course!): the
desire to write haiku and the temptation to indulge in social commentary
seem to me to result in a fair overlap, giving poems that could be
classified in either way, for example from Bashō again:

Cum lat’s gae
an hae a look at the snaw
or we’r aw beirit.

Renga as a game is very popular in some Deaf circles now, I was quite
astonished when I first saw it live:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFq2o-y_yso

(I couldn't find any other way of including the film here? There seemed to
be no embedding code.)

For very short poems in sign languages, such as you might call haiku, it's
quite usual to try to sign the whole thing using a single handshape: this
adds to the poetic effect in some ways, and limits it in others.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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