LL-L "Symbols" 2013.04.29 (01) [DE-EN-NDS]

Mon Apr 29 18:26:04 UTC 2013

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 L O W L A N D S - L - 29 April 2013 - Volume 01
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From: Paul Baronowsky <paulb1 at insightbb.com>
Subject: LL-L "Symbols" 2013.04.28 (01) [EN]

On 4/28/2013 8:27 PM, Roger Thijs wrote:

While walking on Prospect Mira in Moscow past Fiday some youngsters were
> distributing silky ribbons with orange and black strokes. I undersdood
> they were linked to the festivities of May 9th (end of WWII), but I saw
> some military already wearing them now. Is this the equivalent for WWII
> with the red poppies one wears in the UK in November for WWI.
> Does anybody kwow what the colors orange (yellow? gold?) and black mean?
> Are these ribbons also used in other countries?
>
It is called the St. George Ribbon.

An interesting explanation (in English, if one connects from a US ISP) can
be found on this Russian internet site:
< http://rt.com/news/st-george-**ribbon-action/<http://rt.com/news/st-george-ribbon-action/>>
I present four short excerpts to answer the questions:

"...the striped ribbons have been circulating throughout Russia and far
beyond, reaching Europe, the Middle East, America and even Australia!"

"Starting from April 22, Russians may see a particular orange and black
striped ribbon appearing on cars, posters, bags, purses and many other
places. The ribbon consists of a bicolor pattern, with three black and two
orange stripes."

"The black and orange stripes of the ribbon symbolize the smoke and flames
of war. In tsarist Russia, it decorated the Order of St George – the
highest possible military award."

"Nowadays in Russia, the Order of St George remains the most prestigious
military honor."

Thank you for posting this, Roger. IMO, it was an interesting fact to learn
about.

MfG, Paul Baronowsky

----------
From: Hannelore Hinz <hannehinz at t-online.de> <hannehinz at t-online.de>
 Subject: LL-L Symbols

Hallo Lowlanners.

Hier man blot 'n lütten Anfang in uns' Rund':

http://www.mara-thoene.de/html/farbensymbolik.html

Ick mak mi noch later 'n Kopp...

Hanne
-----------

From: "Obiter Dictum" <obiterdictum at mail.ru>
Subject: LL-L "Symbols" 2013.04.28 (01) [EN]

*> From: Roger Thijs <rogerthijs at yahoo.com>
> Subject: LL-L Symbols
> While walking on Prospect Mira in Moscow past Fiday
> some youngsters were distributing silky ribbons with orange
>  and black strokes. I undersdood they were linked to the
> festivities of May 9th (end of WWII),
> Is this the equivalent for WWII with the red poppies one wears
> in the UK in November for WWI.
> Does anybody kwow what the colors orange (yellow? gold?)
>  and black mean? Are these ribbons also used in other countries?
> Regards,
> Roger*

These are the so-called Georgian ribbons (thou they are not, see below),
and yes, they are worn on ostensibly commemoratively in remembrance of the
end of WWII in Europe (called the Great Patriotic War in Russia).

Distributing and wearing Georgian ribbons is a recent tradition dating back
to April 2005 (before the 60th anniversary that year.).  Originally they
were supposed to be worn on the 9th of May, but it soon changed in response
to another, older tradition.  Starting May 1965 (the 20th anniversary of
Victory Day), WWII veterans wear their decorations on their for a week
between 1st and 9th of May.  Wearing Georgian bands is thus a response.
But then many people keep wearing them well after.

*> but I saw some military already wearing them now.
*
 Small wonder, Roger, that you saw may of them right now.

There is some confusion about the colours.  The ribbons are called Georgian
for its stripes (black and orange) resembling the colours (black and
yellow/gold) of the ribbon of the order of St. George, the highest military
decoration in Imperial Russia (it was created in 1769, during the first war
with Turkey, I think, and had four classes).  It was awarded for
exceptional courage on the battlefield.  The colours were the colours of
flame and gunpowder smoke of the battle.

Similar looking was Imperial Russia’s guard unit ribbon (black and ORANGE);
so, strictly speaking, the present-day “Georgian” ribbon is actually the
GUARD ribbon.

The Order of St. George was discontinued in after the Bolshevik revolution
in 1917.

Stalin established the Order of Glory in 1943 to award conscripts and
noncommissioned officers for exceptional courage during WWII. The Order of
Glory had three classes, historically hailed back to the Order of St.
George, and its ribbon also had the “flame and smoke” colours, but those
were ORANGE and black, that is, the “guard colours”.

Later the ribbon became a decoration in its own right for entire units in
Imperial Russia (and later in the Soviet Union), and an addition to the
crack union’s banner.  (This is why many object to wearing it.  Btw, the
Russian Administrative Offences Code expressly prohibits making and wearing
any tokens or signs resembling official decorations.)

(Oddly, the ribbon of the earlier established (1938) Valiance Medal had
nothing to do with the flame and smoke and was gray with blue edges.

Also, the medal ‘For Victory over Germany’  awarded to all combat force
members in 1945, had the black and orange ribbon of the Order of Glory
(and, historically, of the imperial guards).
Later on, the ribbons of all the commemorative anniversary medals issued to
veterans (20, 30, 40, 50 and 60 years after 1945) contained the
black-and-orange motif.

Russian life president Putin re-established the imperial Order of St.
George (with its original 4 classes) with the imperial GUARD (and Stalin’s
Order of Glory0  black and ORANGE ribbon in 2000. The first awarded were
the top brass in the war with Georgia in 2008.

So technically, the present-day black-and-orange  “Georgian ribbon” is
actually not Georgian but the imperial guard ribbon AND the ribbon of the
WWII Order of Glory.

The black-and-orange motif of the ribbon Order of Glory came into
decorative use in 1965.  Since then, it has been associated with the 9th of
May.

This is a controversial matter. Many find wearing these ribbons is a
profanity. Especially if they are misused. Scroll through this; some of the
pictures explain it:

http://lurkmore.to/%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%
B5%D0%B2%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%
D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B0

More here (scroll):

https://www.google.co.za/search?num=100&newwindow=1&
safe=off&q=%D0%B3%D0%B5%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B3%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%B2%
D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F%20%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%
87%D0%BA%D0%B0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=af&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&
tab=wi&ei=Qj1-UduwM-OF4AT0mYHQBA&biw=919&bih=587&sei=sT1-UcbnFqvn4QTy24GQBA#
imgrc=V8AhCrJr9O4xTM%3A%3BEojR3AA4bqisxM%3Bhttp%253A%
252F%252Fwww.bosonogoe.ru%252Fuploads%252Fimages%252F1%
252Fa%252F8%252F5%252F547%252Fa917cae62b.jpg%3Bhttp%
253A%252F%252Fbosonogoe.ru%252Fblog%252F1210.html%3B489%3B744

Ribbons streaming from car radio antennas round the year become ugly dirty
and shabby.

*> PS. The knowledge of English is very poor in Moscow,
> even in hotels. In the metro it is a puzzle to find out what
> is the best ticket for the number of rides one plans in one's
> timeframe.
*
 Rodger, what had you expected? (and why, for that mater? I have a theory,
but I would like to know how you explain it).

Vlad Lee.

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