the two mirs

[Mykhailo Lyubich]

Hi

Elisabeth Ghysels wrote:

> The two "mirs" raise several questions for me:
>
> 1) when and how did the "i desjaterichnoe" disappear in Russian?

                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What does it mean "i desjaterichnoe"?
I can probably answer your next and third questions, but I am not sure about
this term.

>
> 2) am I right, that it has been retained in Ukrainian?
> 3) How can it be explained, that such an important difference between both
> languages has developed apparently during the Soviet era, of all eras?
> 4) When did the "i desjaterichnoe" appear in the first place, since it
> didn't seem to exist in old church Slavic?
> 5) How were "peace" and "world" written before the appearance of the "i
> desjaterichnoe"?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Nikolaus
> Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger
> Spichtenberg 7
> B 9681 Nukerke
> tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85
> email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be
> or      nld at yucom.be
> http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]Namens Donna Orwin
> Verzonden: donderdag 21 september 2000 22:23
> Aan: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
> Onderwerp: Re: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation
> to"slave"
>
> On the subject of the two "mirs" and how Tolstoy played with them, see Ia.
> Bilinkis, O tvorchestve L. N. Tolstogo: Ocherki (Leningrad, 1959), 195-279;
> E.
> E. Zaidenshnur, `Voina i mir' L. N. Tolstogo": Sozdanie velikoi knigi
> (Moscow,
> 1966); S. Bocharov, `Voina i mir' L. N. Tolstogo" in Bocharov, Tri shedevry
> russkoi klassiki (Moscow, 1971) 7-103 passim; and G. Ia. Galagan, L. N.
> Tolstoi: Khudozhestvenno-eticheskie iskaniia (Leningrad, 1981) 93-99.
>
> Jules Levin wrote:
>
> > At 11:59 AM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote:
> > ".
> > >
> > >This is one of those subtleties that are lost in translation. Leo Tolstoy
> > >implied all the meanings in his "Voina i mir".(War and Peace).
> > >In translation only the idea of "peace" is preserved.
> > >
> > Perhaps, but the two meanings were spelled differently.  Mir = peace was
> > unambiguous to Tolstoy and his readers.  That's why Mayakovsky could
> > publish "War and the World", changing one letter.  This distinction is now
> > lost in Russian, but preserved in translation.
> > When we see the title "Huckleberry Finn"  do we think of the word 'fin',
> > and ponder the subtleties?  I doubt it.
> >
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--
Mykhailo Lyubich
Dept.of Computer Science    office phone +49-381-4983407
University of Rostock       office fax   +49-381-4983440

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