Slovo o Polku Igorove Online?

[Keenan, Edward]

I certainly agree with Dean about Az i ia.  To what he says I would add four
small glosses: 1) still the best study of turcica in the Slovo is Karl
Menges' Oriental elements (in Russian or English), where the author's
conclusion are extremely tentative, for the most part; 2) many of the
allegedly Turkic elements, as I try to show in my book, are not Turkic at
all; 3) it's not as easy as some have thought to prove that something known
in the 12th century was not known in the 18th; 4) I don't think I have
claimed that JD knew much Turkic, but he certainly know all the other things
needed to concoct the text.

ELK

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dean Worth [SMTP:dworth at UCLA.EDU]
> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 2:13 PM
> To:   SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
> Subject:      Re: Slovo o Polku Igorove Online?
> 
> Dear Colleague, 
>         I suggest you should read Professor Keenan's materials. If I
> remember correctly, he shows precisely that Dobrovsky knew Turkic, which
> --depending on the quality of D's knowledge, which I can't judge-- would
> vitiate the argument (by Roman Jakobson and others) that the IT must be
> original to the late 12th c. 
> because no one in the 18th could have known those Turkic words. The Az i
> ja 
> booklet isns't a very weighty piece of evidence. Regards, Dean Worth 
> 
> 
> At 10:44 AM 1/31/01 -0500, you wrote: 
> >I am sorry to make this comment without the benefit of reading your book 
> >or the article to which you refer.  As I understand, Oljas Sulejmenov in 
> >his book "Az i ja" (published about 30 years ago) quiet convincingly 
> >showed impossibility of any forgery of the Slovo in the XIX century or 
> >earlier in view of the Old Turk customs described there which he had 
> >discovered. The corresponding linguistic layer would have to be
> introduced 
> >in the original document by its creator. To show that "Slovo" was forged,
> 
> >one must explain then how the Sulejmenov's discovery would be consistent 
> >with an assumption of forgery. I am just wondering if you or anybody else
> 
> >were able to overcome the Sulejmenov's argument. 
> > 
> >Sincerely, 
> > 
> > 
> >Edward Dumanis <dumanis at acsu.buffalo.edu> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Keenan, Edward wrote: 
> > 
> >> ... if not a supernatural feat.  Since, as is extremely probable, the
> Slovo 
> >> was composed by Josef Dobrovsky during or after his stay in Russia  in 
> >> 1792-3, it was probably (lower probability; less evidence here), in its
> 
> >> "original" (i.e., first) form, written in the mixed Latin-Cyrillic 
> >> "all-slavic" alphabet he and his student Václav Hanka occasionally
> favored 
> >> to render the "old Slavic dialect."  (See Hanka's Prague, 1821 edition
> of 
> >> the Slovo.)   
> >>  
> >> I would suggest that readers' time would be better spent reading
> authentic 
> >> works. 
> >>  
> >> Edward L. Keenan 
> >> Andrew W. Mellon Professor of History, Harvard University 
> >> Director, Dumbarton Oaks Research Library and Collections 
> >> 1703 32nd. Street, NW, Washington, DC 20007 
> >>  
> >> PS: For a foretaste of my forthcoming book, you might look at the
> little 
> >> article in the recent Roman Szporluk Festschrift (=Harvard Ukrainian 
> >> Studies, vol. 22). 
> >>  
> >> > -----Original Message----- 
> >> > From: william ryan [SMTP:wfr at SAS.AC.UK] 
> >> > Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:59 PM 
> >> > To:   SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU 
> >> > Subject:      Re: Slovo o Polku Igorove Online? 
> >> >  
> >> > That really would be a triumph of modern technology! 
> >> > Will Ryan 
> >> >  
> >> > Charles Price wrote: 
> >> >  
> >> > > Does anyone happen to know a web page with Slovo o 
> >> > > Polku Igorove in the original script? 
> >> > > 
> >> > > TIA 
> >> > > Charles 
> >> >  
> >> >
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