plastic bags

[Edward M Dumanis]

Sorry. I have not been able to access my e-mail for a week, and could not
reply earlier.
A problem with "kulek," or anything else to for that matter, is not with
the answer but with the question.
We all know that to come up with a correct translation, we need to know at
least the following three parameters, three dimensions of any word usage:
space/time/social group. So, we have to answer the three questions:
1) where?
2) when?
3) who is speaking?

So, we have to take into account this space-time-social dynamics.
As a result, "kulek" can be used now in Moscow on a farm market by a
flower seller from the Caucasus.
I do not think that it is feasible to come up with such a 3-dimensional
map of a significant corpus of the Russian language at this time.
So, by the necessity, we have to restrict our discussion by the so-called
standard usage.
Unless we have a specific need to use different settings, the default
settings for the Russian language (standard Russian) are assumed to be:
1) Space is restricted by the Moscow region;
2) Time is the present time;
3) Social group is a group of sufficiently educated people.

I think that it is not a very good idea to rely on the dynamics of usage
of a similar word in a different language.
If in German, for example, "Tu"te" has expanded its meaning to cover
plastic bags, then one should refrain to conclude that a
correct translation of this word into another language (for a certain
space, time and a social group) has a similar evolution.
I guess that the very word "kulek" gradually disappears from standard
Russian along with disappearance of this type of containers.
However, one could hear it in its new meaning when the default settings
are no longer valid.
Unfortunately, the dictionaries are not perfect for the purpose of a
correct translation, and the only satisfactory approach is to probe a
group of informers from a particular social group from the area in mind
who live (or lived if we are interested in translation into a certain past
time) there. I understand that quite often this luxury is not possible but
this is what we really need.

It is fortunately quite easy to  help you with "cashier's cheque."
In Russian, it is "bankovskiy chek," or just a "chek," exactly like in
supermarkets. As you well know, it is not the only case of multiple
meanings for the same spelling.

Sincerely,

Edward Dumanis <dumanis at acsu.buffalo.edu>


On Tue, 17 Jul 2001, AHetzer wrote:

> Edward M Dumanis schrieb:
> >
> > However, in the Moscow
> > region, it would mean only a special type of conic-shaped bags that one
> > would make from a square sheet (e.g., of paper) when holding one of the
> > corners and wrapping the rest around forming a cone, and then bending
> > it near the vertex to prevent unwrapping.
>
> Thank you. Of course, I had a look at some other dictionaries too (not
> only Collins small pocket dictionary). So, I learned that kulek is what
> we call in German "Tu"te", usually made of a paper sheet.
>
> But the problem here is quite different: there are no more such conic
> paper bags in Western countries. They disappeared with the shops where
> people bought loose stuff, e. g. half a pound of flour. Therefore, the
> term Tu"te is free to be used for other denotates. E. g. I often use
> that word for plastic bags, omitting "Plastik-". Similarly, according to
> large Russian dictionaries, "paket" does NOT mean plastic bags, but
> packing material, wrapping and the like. We have to do with semantic
> shifts that often are not registered in dictionaries.
>
> I will not insist of my definitions of English words here (perhaps my
> knowledge is too poor), but there is the general problem of finding out
> Russian words for things denoting objects Western people are familiar
> with, but uncommon to average Russian people because of different
> experience in every day life. For instance, I do not know how to say
> unambiguously "cheque" (in banking), because the Russian word chek is
> used for what you receive at the cashier's in a supermarket.
>
> --
> Dr. Armin Hetzer
> apl. Prof., FB 10, Universitaet Bremen
> Institut fuer Allgemeine und Angewandte Sprachwissenschaft
> Postfach 33 04 40, D 28334 Bremen
> http://www1.uni-bremen.de/~hetzer
>
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