v Ukraine : na Ukraine

[John Dunn]

I'm not sure it's as simple as that.  V/na usage was standardised quite late in the nineteenth or even twentieth centuries, and the boundaries can sometimes appear odd.  Na Ukraine has never seemed to me to fit into any obvious pattern, and I have always assumed it to be a Polonism: it fits much better with the Polish pattern of using 'na' with the names of neighbouring territories (of whatever hisatorical or present-day status), e.g. na Litwie, na Węgrzech.  On such Russian TV coverage of recent events in Ukraine* as I have seen, 'na Ukraine' is used with almost total consistency.  The one exception I have noticed is Svetlana Sorokina, the presenter of the talk-show 'Osnovnoj instinkt', who made a great effort to say 'v Ukraine' (her equivalent to Vladimir Pozner's orange tie?), though even her resolution faltered after she was rebuked by Vladimir Zhirinovskij.

*If Paris is worth a mass, then Ukraine is worth at least a definite article! Sir Paul Dukes (a British spy, not the distinguished, but as yet unknighted historian of Russia) refers to 'the northern Ukraine', but 'Ukrainia' in his book 'Red Dusk and the Morrow' (London, 1922).  The article in English is hard to explain and has no particular logic now; I suspect that usage became standardised in the early 1920s, when Ukraine was seen as a vaguely defined land at first disputed and then after the Treaty of Riga divided between Poland and what became the Soviet Union, but I recognise that is only half an answer.  

John Dunn.


-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Young <young at UMBC.EDU>
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
Date: Sat, 18 Dec 2004 14:03:29 -0500
Subject: [SEELANGS] v Ukraine : na Ukraine

Martin's remarks seem right on the mark.

Now for the somewhat related question of "v Ukraine" vs. "na Ukraine."  A
quick Google (na russkom) search shows 2.950,000 hits in favor of "v," and
2,890,000 for "na."  Do intuitions for Russian speakers (sorry, I don't
have a background in Ukrainian) also fall out along the lines of "region"
(na) and "sovereign state" (v)?  Does the same issue arise in Ukrainian?

Steve.

--
Steven Young
Associate Professor of Russian & Linguistics
Deparment of Modern Languages & Linguistics
University of Maryland, Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
Tel.  410-455-2117

John Dunn
SMLC (Slavonic Studies)
University of Glasgow
Hetheringon Building
Bute Gardens
Glasgow G12 8RS
U.K.

Tel.: +44 (0)141 330 5591
Fax: +44 (0)141 330 2297
e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------