V Sibiri and V Krimu

[Rory Finnin]

I hate to split hairs, but the reference to Shevchenko is not especially
helpful to this discussion.  The poet used "v Ukraini" more often (cf. "I
mertvym, i zhyvym, i nenarodzhenym zemliakam moim *v Ukraini* i ne *v
Ukraini* moie druzhnieie poslaniie") and wrote, quite obviously, before
Ukraine became a modern, sovereign state.  And for all those concerned, this
debate ultimately bears upon a politics of recognition -- or, conversely, of
a lack of recognition -- of Ukraine's sovereignty.  

We can discuss the origins of and possible reasons for "na Ukraine" well
into 2005, and it would undoubtedly prove an interesting exchange (as this
one has).  But the fact remains: a growing constituency finds the usage of
"na Ukraine" problematic, an arguable residue of imperial discourse.
Meanwhile, as far as I can tell, no one takes issue with "v Ukraine."  So
why not make the extra effort in favoring/promoting the latter?  I agree
that "insisting" upon such usage, or impugning the motives of those who
might not adhere to it, is no solution.  But neither is dismissing such
"demands" as "ridiculous."

_________________________
Rory Finnin
Center for Comparative Literature and Society
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
Columbia University


Date:    Wed, 22 Dec 2004 01:49:04 -0500
From:    Edward M Dumanis <dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU>
Subject: Re: V Sibiri and V Krimu

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Martin Votruba wrote:

> ... _v_ sovetskoj Ukraine, _v_ Zakarpatskoj Ukraine (but na
> pravobereznoj Ukraine)

I do not know why you would say that. I'd say "v pravoberezhnoj Ukraine."

I want to say also that, from my point of view, it is not the language
that follows the rules, but we create the rules that simplify our own
description of the language as a system. It seems to me that instead of
taking the language "as is," some people prefer to impose the norms that
follow not from the usage, but from the rules they themselves created.
It just turns everything upside down.

Taras Shevchenko used "na" with "Ukraine"  when he wrote his famous lines:
Yak umru, to pohovajte
Mene na mogili,
Sered stepu shirokogo,
Na Vkrajine miloj.

So, why is it bad when Russians use "na" in the same context? Could this
be just a ukrainism in the Russian language? We can build different
theories, but we should not prescribe any sly intentions to the native
speakers of the language, and insist that they should use it in a certain
manner. It can only open the Pandora's box of some other demands, e.g.,
Russians might demand to remove some words from Ukrainian public usage
which sound vulgar in Russian (of course, it would hardly happen looking
at the level of vulgarities used publicly in Russia nowadays). If you find
it ridiculous, so do I.

Sincerely,

Edward Dumanis <dumanis at buffalo.edu>

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