Translation Question - CORRECTION!

[DBH]

Thanks, but the problem remains unresolved.
We're talking about the fifth entry on the first page
inside a Soviet passport.  There's no confusion as to
meaning or usage.  What I'm trying to figure out is
whether there's an accepted translation into English.
"Column" is given by the two dictionaries I consulted,
disturbingly enough, and that translation is
completely unacceptable.  The most common meaning of
"grafa" in the 20th C is the not "column" (although
that meaning exists, of course), but rather whatever
you'd call the blank, underlined space in a form that
you have to fill in.  The relevant page of a Soviet
passport had (obviously, since we're discussing the
fifth) other "grafy" -- there were about seven in
total, I think.
"Nationality" isn't a translation of the term.  No one
would ask, for instance, "What's your piataia grafa?"
Since it's clear how one would translate "piataia,"
the question is really how to translate "grafa."
JW Narins
UCLA


--- Edward M Dumanis <dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU> wrote:

> "Piataja grapha" is just a euphemism for ethnicity
> while "pjataja kolonna"
> is a metaphor which refers to general Franco's
> statement during  the
> Spanish Civil War that he was leading four columns
> of troops against
> Madrid while the fifth column was ready to fight on
> his side and was
> waiting for him within the city.
>
> Edward Dumanis <dumanis at buffalo.edu>
>
> On Sat, 13 Nov 2004, J.W. wrote:
>
> > Ottawa (Canada), Saturday 13/11/04 9h30 EST
> >
> > CORRECTION!  I wrote too soon.
> >
> > While a reply from one Russian native speaker
> indeed saw no difference
> > between the terms "pjataja kolonna" and "pjata
> grafa" (indicating that
> > "pjataja grafa" may be used that way by some
> Russians), another
> > respondent reminded me of the very important
> distinction between the
> > two, which completely slipped by mind earlier
> (even though I have known
> > about this in the past).
> >
> > "Pjataja grafa" is used to refer to the indication
> of one's
> > "nationality" or ethnic background in the Soviet
> internal passport.  Its
> > English equivalent would depend upon the context.
> In some contexts
> > something like "ethnic designation" might fit.  Or
> it might be worth
> > adding an explanatory footnote.
> >
> > My humble apologies for my earlier 'conclusion',
> which may or may not
> > have validity.
> >
> > John Woodsworth, Research Associate
> > Slavic Research Group at the University of Ottawa
> >
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >  Use your web browser to search the archives,
> control your subscription
> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the
> SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> >
> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> >
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives,
> control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the
> SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>
> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------