Etymology of zabyt'

[Richard Robin]

I have just jumped into this discussion because of I have thought about the
etymology of забыть since college. I had the usual Slavic historical
phonology-morphology courses in graduate school (and I should probably know
better than to comment when there are also all sorts of experts on this
list...) But I can't help looking at this is some sort of calque (from when
though?):

за = "for"
быть as a paranym for стать (cf. Romance languages, esp. Spanish ser, simple
copulative vs. estar - "being" of state or condition)

Now compare the быть (~стать) part to Germanic (e.g. English) "get," also a
stative as in "When things *get* tough, the tought *get* going"), and the
calque is complete.

I realize that in historical/comparative Slavics, I'm a dilettante, but can
any of the experts chime in? If this is a calque, when was it calqued and
through what language? Or does it go all the ay back to PIE?

-Rich Robin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ruby J. Jones" <rubyj at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Etymology of zabyt'


> If you look at the usage of the 'za-' meaning "directionality of action,
> movement beyond some kind of limits (or boundary), somewhere far away"
> (направленность действия, движения за какие-л. пределы, куда-л. далеко--
> Большой толковый словарь русского языка), you can make a case for the
> knowledge still being in your brain, but somewhere far away from you
> conscious control, and therefore not retrievable.
>    I know that's a long sentence, but does this work for you?
> Anyone with any other comments (or corrections?), please feel free to jump
> in.
>
> Ruby J. Jones
> Doctoral Candidate
> Department of Slavic and Eurasian Studies
> University of Texas at Austin
> Austin, Texas 78713
> (512) 471-3607 [work] / (512) 441-1277 [home]
> rubyj at mail.utexas.edu
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
> To: <SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 11:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Etymology of zabyt'
>
>
>> Subhash.Jaireth at GA.GOV.AU wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I was wondering if someone can help me with the etymology of the word
>>> zabyt'
>>> (to forget)? Can I interpret the word as za-byt' where byt' stands for
>>> to
>>> be?
>>
>> You can query Max Vasmer's etymological dictionary online at
>> <http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/main.cgi?flags=wygtmnl> (click
>> "query").
>>
>> But all it says is this:
>>
>> Word: забы́ть,
>>
>> Near etymology: ср. польск. (стар.) zabywać "забывать"; см. Брюкнер 52.
>> Из
>> за- и быть
>>
>> Trubachev's comments: [сюда же укр. забу́ти. -- Т.]
>>
>>
>> --
>> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
>> --
>> Paul B. Gallagher
>> pbg translations, inc.
>> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
>> http://pbg-translations.com
>>
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