Faked placement might hve their logic

Fri Feb 3 12:39:28 UTC 2006

Speaking as a learner rather than as a language teacher, I'd say it's 
important for heritage speakers to learn the written language, which 
they may not get at home. I know a heritage speaker who speaks fairly 
fluent Czech but can't read or write it. She also has strange 
pronunciation, suggesting she mishears consonants often.

As for grammar--well, language classes don't necessarily teach a 
person that. I've had English grammar (grade school through high 
school), plus I've taken classes in German, Latin, French, Spanish, 
Czech, and Slovak. The result? About all I am sure of grammatically 
is what the terms noun and verb mean. Nomenclature and function seem 
to vary from language to language. Like most people, I learn correct 
usage by hearing and reading it, not by understanding the grammar.

Karla Huebner

At 12:10 PM 2/3/2006, atacama at global.co.za wrote:
>
>Trying to enter at the elementary level might have a very good reason,
>besides trying to obtain high marks with little effort.
>
>Take my case: I am what would be called a Russian-language
>heritage speaker, born of Russian/German parents in Berlin,
>with home language Russian & some German, and then entered
>the British school/university system.
>
>Although my spoken Russian and German were excellent, I didn't
>really understand grammar at all.   I was pushed into the higher
>classes, eventually obtained a degree - but I am still extremely
>sorry that I never had elementary classes where simple grammar is
>taught..... I now do high level translations, but don't really
>understand grammar.
>
>I also spoke Spanish, but had the good fortune to re-start it at
>elementary level in London thus obtaining a good foundation of grammar,
>which I really think is essential in any language.
>
>I would suggest for students in such a position to be give
>crash courses in basic language before they proceed to higher
>levels.
>
>V Bell.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Original Message:
>-----------------
>From: Prof Steven P Hill s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU
>Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 04:28:42 -0600
>To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
>Subject: [SEELANGS] "Faked" placement scores from native speakers
>
>
>Dear colleagues:
>
>I suspect that as long as universities rely on an "honor system" when
>giving
>placement  tests to high-school seniors, there will be some danger of faked
>low placement scores.  (Russian-born youngsters,  native speakers of
>Russian,
>may try to score very low, hoping to be placed in university sections of
>"Russian
>101," the lowest elementary level.) Their motivation for faking a low score
>would
>be to get an "easy A+" at the lowest university level,  without doing much
>work.
>That  in turn can have the unfortunate side-effect of discouraging the
>traditional
>students (native speakers of English), who enrolled in that same "101"
>section
>and find it impossible to compete with the "fakers."
>
>One way to try to deal with this problem, probably well known to most of
>our
>colleagues, is for the admissions office of the US university to note in
>its
>transcript records the place of birth and the age at which the
>newly-admitted
>"heritage learner" entered the US (if so indicated).  Thus having
>identified those
>students who had spent a number of years in the Russian school system, the
>university can notify the newly-admitted heritage learners that if they
>enroll in
>"Russ. 101" or "103," etc.,  they WILL RECEIVE NO UNIVERSITY CREDIT  (even
>if
>they  get an easy A+).  It would  be hoped that potential "fakers" would
>thus
>be motivated to enroll directly in ADVANCED levels (e.g., 200- or 300- or
>400-
>level), i.e., the lowest level at which they CAN receive university credit.
>
>The same approach could apply, for example, to Latin-American  immigrants,
>presumably native speakers of Spanish, who should not be eligible to
>receive
>any university credit for going back and taking "Span. 101 or 103," etc.
>Or,
>say, a mature 28-year-old freshman enrollee in "ROTC 101" (elementary
>military
>officers training), whose transcript records would reveal that he/she had
>served
>10 years (age 18-28) on active military duty, as high-ranked as 1st
>lieutenant
>-- and thus should not be eligible to receive any credit for going back and
>taking ROTC 101 or 103, etc.
>
>No panacea, but it might help.... -- Steven P Hill, University of Illinois.
>
>_ ___ _ __ __ __ _ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
>_
>
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